Davepalace707
Member
- Location
- Northumberland
- Country
England
Surely he has to go tomorrow? If not we’ve found the only way to make things even worse over the past 24 hours. What a joke we have become.
Glasner Out
- Topic starter PalacePoet
- Start date
Never a truer word spoken.
Paul Salvage
Member
- Location
- Bromley
- Country
-
England
This whole sorry mess could have been completely avoided if OG was simply more pragmatic with what players he had available to him. We know that we sold our best players and had injuries but to stick with the same system and tactics despite the missing personnel to implement it is simply crazy and poor management.
To compound matters he then destroys all the team spirit by slagging off the club, the players and the fixture congestion, and at no point took responsibility until today which was just another veiled dig at the club.
If he is still in charge on Sunday, I fully expect that he will be given grace for the first 15-20 minutes and then if we have yet another insipid performance I fully expect the faithful to turn on him with full gusto and Venom to which he has yet to witness at Selhurst.
To compound matters he then destroys all the team spirit by slagging off the club, the players and the fixture congestion, and at no point took responsibility until today which was just another veiled dig at the club.
If he is still in charge on Sunday, I fully expect that he will be given grace for the first 15-20 minutes and then if we have yet another insipid performance I fully expect the faithful to turn on him with full gusto and Venom to which he has yet to witness at Selhurst.
Forest Hillbilly
Member
- Location
- in a hidey-hole
- Country
Wales
Surely to keep the fans away from the car park, to facilitate a quick getaway 🙂
Club knows we're will drowning our sorrows after the game.
And pleasing to see some staff are being retained after the Wolves game, even if it's only the stewards and bar staff 😀
eritheagle
Member
- Location
- Erith
- Country
-
England
I think the lawyers are working overtime at the moment and he'll be gone in the morning by "mutual consent".
and then selhurst will be rocking again!!
I agree with you for a lot, but I think the opinion that Mostar are a good team is exaggerated. That may be true for a team like Larnaca, where financiers, who for various reasons often remain in the background, build a team that is much stronger than one would expect at first thought for a Cypriot one. But I've seen Mostar twice this season and they weren't exactly impressive, so I would have bet on us winning. Experience in Europe is certainly important and is underestimated by many, but just because a team plays in Europe often doesn't make them automatically a strong one. And Mostar were certainly one of the weakest sides in this year's Conference League, qualifying for the play-offs only thanks to a last-minute own goal by Rapid. Therefore, it is not completely absurd to expect a PL team to win against them and not that we will be lucky to salvage a draw.
davemadden5
New member
- Country
-
England
The beauty of being Palace ’til we die is that we take disappointment in our stride. We’re used to boom and bust, more bust obviously, it’s part of the fabric of the club. Yet under Parish, we’ve had this strange, sustained period of punching above our weight. As much as he gets under our collective skin at times, he has also been a very good chairman. I know, it’s a paradox. But that’s the Palace.
Glasner, however, is becoming an unmitigated disgrace. Most of us can see that. We’re approaching the endgame.
I hope Thomas Frank is quietly lined up already, that conversations have taken place, and that he’s currently taking a convenient “mental health break” which, after a stint at Spurs, would be entirely understandable.
But beware, Steve Parish. The Palace family is on your side for now. The longer you fail to act, the longer you refuse to wield the knife against the man who damages our brand and reputation every time he opens his disloyal, sanctimonious, narcissistic mouth, the more the responsibility shifts onto your shoulders.
Cut him adrift now.
As for the self-proclaimed “greatest manager ever” ffs, really? I must have missed the season where we finished third in the league, which by any reasonable yardstick is the benchmark of our greatest success ever.
Glasner, however, is becoming an unmitigated disgrace. Most of us can see that. We’re approaching the endgame.
I hope Thomas Frank is quietly lined up already, that conversations have taken place, and that he’s currently taking a convenient “mental health break” which, after a stint at Spurs, would be entirely understandable.
But beware, Steve Parish. The Palace family is on your side for now. The longer you fail to act, the longer you refuse to wield the knife against the man who damages our brand and reputation every time he opens his disloyal, sanctimonious, narcissistic mouth, the more the responsibility shifts onto your shoulders.
Cut him adrift now.
As for the self-proclaimed “greatest manager ever” ffs, really? I must have missed the season where we finished third in the league, which by any reasonable yardstick is the benchmark of our greatest success ever.
TheBigToePunt
Member
- Country
-
England
I think 'Manager Out' stuff is often part of a misunderstanding of the nature of football, manifest in the now common expression that 'he' has lost however many games out of 'his' last ten, or 'he' has a good record against 'him'.
Years ago there was far too little thoughtful analysis of tactics and technical organisation. Now there is far too much, to the point that it is back-projected onto events in a way that has little relationship to what actually just happened on the grass. There is a whole industry built on overstating the effect of such-and-such a coaches 'philosophy', on how Liverpool v City, or whoever, is a matter of Pep and his possession-based method against Klopp and his fast-counter attacking style, as if the presence on the field of world-class footballers in fantastic condition, and who are trying very hard, is incidental. As if it is anything other than a game of very fine margins that includes luck.
The role and significance of the manager has mutated into something previously unrecognisable. They are held more directly responsible for smaller and smaller on-field things over shorter and shorter terms, even though they have less power and control than ever. His football is stodgy. His football is free-flowing. He plays with a high-line. He plays on the counter. He was flying but has now lost his sparkle. To hear some media and fan assessments, you would think these guys play against each other, 1v1, to decide the game. Tactics matter, but its not chess.
Also, the manager is now responsible not only for players mentality, but for outside perceptions of their mentality. The players just don't seem to be running for him. He seems to have lost the dressing room. They've stopped listening to him. Mindset and motivation, however, are not so easy to prove. Many of us are diagnosing mental weakness from the stands or the sofa having never met a single one of the people involved, and with no insight whatsoever to what is said and done behind closed doors. From the outside it looked like the players and/or manager were half asleep against Macclesfield. However, Franny Jeffers, the Macclesfield assistant manager, was on some podcast the other day and said that at half time Glasner and Guehi were in fact going at each other full on in a way that surprised him. We project weak leadership or sloppy culture onto poor performances, just like we project strong minds and hearts onto good results. In truth, we haven't got a clue what these people are like with each other behind closed doors.
Even if a player is unmotivated or lazy, the solution rarely involves the manager reaching into the players mind and flicking some switch. That idea is a remanent from the days when big characters like Shankly and Clough would talk up their own abilities in that respect, and believe their own hype. What is often overlooked, is that their players were on very average wages, and entirely beholden to the whims of their manager for their financial futures. No wonder they hung on the bosses every word. Players don't have that fear now. They are far more secure in every respect than the manager. What if, for example, Johnson or Pino are playing so badly because they are arrogant twats who couldn't care less, or they are gutted and deeply regret moving to us when they could have stayed where they were? What possible sway would Glasner have over them? The players would need to be carefully traded out for as little a loss as possible, something that could take a long time. The manager can't spike their Lucozade with mind-altering drugs!
None of which is to suggest that the manager, with his tactics, training, and how he leads by example around the place, don't matter. Perhaps we are right to see Glasner as the cause of these listless performances. My thinking on that is twofold:
Firstly, we don't actually know what he is like at work. Even his media output, including his (unforgivable, in my view) outburst after Sunderland doesn't show us what he is like behind the scenes. Perhaps he is taking every care in his handling of the players mindsets. Perhaps, in his day to day work, he remains the manager most of us held him to be this time last year. We just can't know. If Glasner was chucking it in behind the scenes, though, I cannot imagine Parish would not know about it. For any of us to say that Glasner has given up and doesn't care is just frustrated guesswork from a position of ignorance.
Secondly, if we fall into the trap of seeing the managers tactics as the prime reason we win or lose, and the level of performance within those tactics as the direct result solely of his ability to motivate the players, we fall into the trap of overestimating the importance of the manager generally. He is a key part, but not the kingpin upon whom all things depend and can be blamed or praised. His work is vital, but not nowhere near as impactful as wider circumstances.
It might be that a new manager with a different approach leads to a bit of a positive bounce (although that cannot be guaranteed), or better suits the players (I believe now that it would). Even so, sooner or later Palace will play badly for a sustained period, and get poor results. Will we just constantly recycle the manager every time? We have done very well out of not being that kind of club, by staying calm as others destabilise themselves and crumble.
I wouldn't be too sad or surprised if Glasner does get the sack, but I also wouldn't be in anything like as big a rush as many on here to give him the boot as part of some indignant, crowd-pleasing performance like they do at Spurs or West Ham. I don't think it helps Palace to act like that. It's not playing to our strengths in the long term.
Years ago there was far too little thoughtful analysis of tactics and technical organisation. Now there is far too much, to the point that it is back-projected onto events in a way that has little relationship to what actually just happened on the grass. There is a whole industry built on overstating the effect of such-and-such a coaches 'philosophy', on how Liverpool v City, or whoever, is a matter of Pep and his possession-based method against Klopp and his fast-counter attacking style, as if the presence on the field of world-class footballers in fantastic condition, and who are trying very hard, is incidental. As if it is anything other than a game of very fine margins that includes luck.
The role and significance of the manager has mutated into something previously unrecognisable. They are held more directly responsible for smaller and smaller on-field things over shorter and shorter terms, even though they have less power and control than ever. His football is stodgy. His football is free-flowing. He plays with a high-line. He plays on the counter. He was flying but has now lost his sparkle. To hear some media and fan assessments, you would think these guys play against each other, 1v1, to decide the game. Tactics matter, but its not chess.
Also, the manager is now responsible not only for players mentality, but for outside perceptions of their mentality. The players just don't seem to be running for him. He seems to have lost the dressing room. They've stopped listening to him. Mindset and motivation, however, are not so easy to prove. Many of us are diagnosing mental weakness from the stands or the sofa having never met a single one of the people involved, and with no insight whatsoever to what is said and done behind closed doors. From the outside it looked like the players and/or manager were half asleep against Macclesfield. However, Franny Jeffers, the Macclesfield assistant manager, was on some podcast the other day and said that at half time Glasner and Guehi were in fact going at each other full on in a way that surprised him. We project weak leadership or sloppy culture onto poor performances, just like we project strong minds and hearts onto good results. In truth, we haven't got a clue what these people are like with each other behind closed doors.
Even if a player is unmotivated or lazy, the solution rarely involves the manager reaching into the players mind and flicking some switch. That idea is a remanent from the days when big characters like Shankly and Clough would talk up their own abilities in that respect, and believe their own hype. What is often overlooked, is that their players were on very average wages, and entirely beholden to the whims of their manager for their financial futures. No wonder they hung on the bosses every word. Players don't have that fear now. They are far more secure in every respect than the manager. What if, for example, Johnson or Pino are playing so badly because they are arrogant twats who couldn't care less, or they are gutted and deeply regret moving to us when they could have stayed where they were? What possible sway would Glasner have over them? The players would need to be carefully traded out for as little a loss as possible, something that could take a long time. The manager can't spike their Lucozade with mind-altering drugs!
None of which is to suggest that the manager, with his tactics, training, and how he leads by example around the place, don't matter. Perhaps we are right to see Glasner as the cause of these listless performances. My thinking on that is twofold:
Firstly, we don't actually know what he is like at work. Even his media output, including his (unforgivable, in my view) outburst after Sunderland doesn't show us what he is like behind the scenes. Perhaps he is taking every care in his handling of the players mindsets. Perhaps, in his day to day work, he remains the manager most of us held him to be this time last year. We just can't know. If Glasner was chucking it in behind the scenes, though, I cannot imagine Parish would not know about it. For any of us to say that Glasner has given up and doesn't care is just frustrated guesswork from a position of ignorance.
Secondly, if we fall into the trap of seeing the managers tactics as the prime reason we win or lose, and the level of performance within those tactics as the direct result solely of his ability to motivate the players, we fall into the trap of overestimating the importance of the manager generally. He is a key part, but not the kingpin upon whom all things depend and can be blamed or praised. His work is vital, but not nowhere near as impactful as wider circumstances.
It might be that a new manager with a different approach leads to a bit of a positive bounce (although that cannot be guaranteed), or better suits the players (I believe now that it would). Even so, sooner or later Palace will play badly for a sustained period, and get poor results. Will we just constantly recycle the manager every time? We have done very well out of not being that kind of club, by staying calm as others destabilise themselves and crumble.
I wouldn't be too sad or surprised if Glasner does get the sack, but I also wouldn't be in anything like as big a rush as many on here to give him the boot as part of some indignant, crowd-pleasing performance like they do at Spurs or West Ham. I don't think it helps Palace to act like that. It's not playing to our strengths in the long term.
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RubinsCube
Member
- Location
- Wimbledon
- Country
-
England
Not sure if it would be a first for us, but Big Ange at Tottenham comes to mind. UEFA Europa League Final winners in late May last year, and left/fired in early June without overseeing another competitive fixture!
Ouzo Dan
Member
- Location
- Behind you
- Country
Slovakia
Should have gone after his smiley little announcement that he was leaving, I maintain Parish is keeping him on after a massive falling out purely to wreck whatever remains of his legacy.
Bloke needs to be wading in bin juice & not in charge of this club, get rid FFS.
Bloke needs to be wading in bin juice & not in charge of this club, get rid FFS.
StandbyPalace
Member
- Location
- Hove
- Country
-
England
yeah wasnt pointing the finger at OG about Johnson. Would love to know whose decision it was to sign him. Franca apparently was a Textor job Nketiah not sure on paper he should do alright. Just in total though that must be getting on towards 90-100m.
eaglesdare
Member
- Country
-
England
Glasner doesn't want to be here. Just get it over with and get rid. What's the point in delaying and risking our premier league status.
StandbyPalace
Member
- Location
- Hove
- Country
-
England
Only just seen OG's press conference comments its like his almost given up. I reckon unless we get at least a draw against Wolves he will be sacked. And a draw is no means certain with our current form and new injuries.
RubinsCube
Member
- Location
- Wimbledon
- Country
-
England
None of us know much for certain but it does make you wonder what the specific rationale is for the Board to keep him on. Common sense would point to results, OG's demeanour, and the less than comfortable league / European competition positions as reasons for moving him on.
It does cost money to fire managers and their entourage but a few million with such little left on his contract is surely not the only factor here.
There must be some combination of the following at play:
1. Financial cost of firing him.
2. Net pros and cons of getting a temporary manager in now compared to keeping him.
3. New manager is lined up but not available until the summer, so it makes sense to keep status quo if possible.
4. Or new manager not identified; better the devil you know at this stage in the season.
5. Precedent needs to be set that if someone spits their dummy out that does not guarantee their way to the exit door.
6. OG is considered the best chance of winning in Europe this season.
I think some combination of 5 and 6 are the factors keeping OG in his position.
Living In Hope
Member
- Location
- Petersfield
- Country
-
England
I am surprised that there hasn't been more comment about OG's words today. I had thought it was a sensible plan to retain him, as his job prospects would be greatly impacted by Palace being relegated, or even surviving but remaining as poor as we have been for 3 months now.
But today's speech was really disingenuous. "I'm just not good enough to replace the players we sold. I'm just not good enough to integrate the new players in a way to play the same way like we did, and I'm not good enough that we can cope with the schedule we had." In other words it is the board's fault for selling our players (as a club like ours has to), the new players are crap, and the board didn't provide a big enough squad. The idea that he is "blaming himself" is nonsense - this is just a back-handed way of telling us it is all someone else's fault.
For me this is the moment that has changed my mind - he should go now, before the Wolves game.
But today's speech was really disingenuous. "I'm just not good enough to replace the players we sold. I'm just not good enough to integrate the new players in a way to play the same way like we did, and I'm not good enough that we can cope with the schedule we had." In other words it is the board's fault for selling our players (as a club like ours has to), the new players are crap, and the board didn't provide a big enough squad. The idea that he is "blaming himself" is nonsense - this is just a back-handed way of telling us it is all someone else's fault.
For me this is the moment that has changed my mind - he should go now, before the Wolves game.
Linford
Member
- Country
-
England
Would not be against it if necessary. He has done well for us on a couple of spells and his main strengths are to do with morale, man-management. Could give a better feeling around the camp.
This, you are 100% right. It was the same when he said, that he had underestimated the tight game plan in summer and the risks of injuries. I am not averse to a certain amount of sarcasm, but I doubt whether it is very advantageous to display it in a public interview. However, it seems that, in addition to money, success also corrupts character.
martinelliff
Member
- Location
- Staffordshire
- Country
-
England
He will go as soon as we get knocked out of Europe. Ange was only kept on at Spurs because they kept winning in Europe, then once they won the cup and the season over he was fired. If Spurs had been knocked out in the semis of the Europa he would have gone sooner. Same scenario applies to Glasner (except in the highly unlikely scenario we fail to win another EPL game).
Linford
Member
- Country
-
England
Further to the irony, perhaps, we already currently hold the same record for a 42 game season (49 points, 1992-93).