US Politics

Common Sense Club said:
So, as I read it you are disappointed that Parliament did not revoke/reverse the Brexit situation. Parliament should make it's own decisions and referendums, public opinion should be ignored until the next general election. Parliament decides and we accept their choices.
So if Reform win the next general election and get a majority, you would be happy that they chose not to revoke Brexit?
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Happy no, but accepting as if the decision of the people is to ask them to form the government then their duty is to do what they believe is in our best interests. I would hope, but not expect, them to come to realise what an error it was and reverse course.

More probably they would only be the largest party but not be able to form a government without help from others. The could possibly get that from whatever is left of the Tories but nowhere else. With luck the remaining parties can form a coalition of the practical, especially if reentering the EU is promised by the LibDems who are going to make big gains next time and all agree to start exploratory talks. That sets up clear boundaries which people can get behind the next time.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Happy no, but accepting as if the decision of the people is to ask them to form the government then their duty is to do what they believe is in our best interests. I would hope, but not expect, them to come to realise what an error it was and reverse course.

More probably they would only be the largest party but not be able to form a government without help from others. The could possibly get that from whatever is left of the Tories but nowhere else. With luck the remaining parties can form a coalition of the practical, especially if reentering the EU is promised by the LibDems who are going to make big gains next time and all agree to start exploratory talks. That sets up clear boundaries which people can get behind the next time.
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The Lib Dems, Greens and SNP would all clamber for rejoining the EU. Reform obviously not and those left in the Tory and Labour Party who don’t have strong leanings would have to search their conscience as to whether they should support a reversal of a public vote. Unfortunately if rejoining the EU becomes a central manifesto point there will be further divisions amongst the public, which is already divided on many matters.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
There is only irony in the minds of those unable to see anything other than their own prejudices. We never ever handed power to unelected bureaucrats anywhere. We delegated responsibility. Something that could be withdrawn by Parliament, so the power always resided with them. We all delegate responsibility every day and we can all choose not to. That our Parliament chose to withdraw proves that.

I didn’t want a confirmation referendum. I wanted Parliament to abide by their own convictions and do their duty. They believed Brexit was an error. Their duty to us was to act on that belief. The concept of another referendum was simply a proposal to try to avoid political chaos from people like you. It wasn’t necessary.

I don’t think you are bonkers. I don’t resort to childish slurs. I think you are fixated with concepts that don’t stand up to critical examination.
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I don't care what you wanted. The idea that democracy is better served by surrendering it to a body not elected by the British people is barmy. You wanted another referendum to get the result your lot wanted. Nothing more. I'm sure that referendum would have been perfectly valid in your mind.

You don't and never have fooled anyone, except maybe yourself.

It wasn't a childish slur. I actually believe it.

Fruitcake anyone?
 
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Common Sense Club said:
The Lib Dems, Greens and SNP would all clamber for rejoining the EU. Reform obviously not and those left in the Tory and Labour Party who don’t have strong leanings would have to search their conscience as to whether they should support a reversal of a public vote. Unfortunately if rejoining the EU becomes a central manifesto point there will be further divisions amongst the public, which is already divided on many matters.
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They should certainly search their conscience and decide what their actual role is. Which is to decide on our behalf what is best for us now. Not what a poll of the voters decided, by a very thin margin, at one point 10 years ago, after political campaigns full of rhetoric and half truths. A lot has happened since then. Buyer’s remorse is now evident.

But you are right, the LibDems, who will take votes from both Labour and Tories, Greens and SNP will all be in favour with rejoining being the policy of coalescence. What’s left of the centre right of the Tories could break to join them as could Labour if the prize is to stop a Reform government.

It would indeed be a testing time and I am undecided on its merits. In some ways the best action would be to allow Reform to destroy themselves by making them have to actually take responsibility, thus fouling up so badly they would never again be trusted. The downside being the mess they would leave behind. Although rejoining would then become easier.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
I don't care what you wanted. The idea that democracy is better served by surrendering it to a body not elected by the British people is barmy. You wanted another referendum to get the result your lot wanted. Nothing more. I'm sure that referendum would have been perfectly valid in your mind.

You don't and never have fooled anyone, except maybe yourself.

It wasn't a childish slur. I actually believe it.

Fruitcake anyone?
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I fully understand you don’t care what I want. You don’t care what anyone opposed to your type of politics wants.

We have never surrendered our democracy to anyone, not for even one moment. That you and all the brainwashed Brexiteers keep claiming it doesn’t make true. Delegation is not surrender. It’s cooperation in the interests of efficiency but something that can be, and was, withdrawn. Delegation is a necessary feature of every functioning society. Something we all do every day.

Do you actually read what I write, or just assume things? I very clearly said I did not want another referendum. I wanted Parliament to do what they are elected to do. Which is to represent us. Using their knowledge and the prevailing circumstances to decide. Not a politically motivated straw poll years ago. The only reason others wanted a second referendum was to prove to people like you that the majority opinion had shifted. Johnson, being the self serving man he is was aware he would lose, so refused.

You just don’t like uncomfortable truth being told to you.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
I fully understand you don’t care what I want. You don’t care what anyone opposed to your type of politics wants.

We have never surrendered our democracy to anyone, not for even one moment. That you and all the brainwashed Brexiteers keep claiming it doesn’t make true. Delegation is not surrender. It’s cooperation in the interests of efficiency but something that can be, and was, withdrawn. Delegation is a necessary feature of every functioning society. Something we all do every day.

Do you actually read what I write, or just assume things? I very clearly said I did not want another referendum. I wanted Parliament to do what they are elected to do. Which is to represent us. Using their knowledge and the prevailing circumstances to decide. Not a politically motivated straw poll years ago. The only reason others wanted a second referendum was to prove to people like you that the majority opinion had shifted. Johnson, being the self serving man he is was aware he would lose, so refused.

You just don’t like uncomfortable truth being told to you.
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Bangs on and on about the sovereignty of the UK Parliament and in the same breath also bangs on about rejoining the EU and placing sovereignty into the hands of unelected commissioners.
 
I'm being a pedant, but that isn't Trans (if it even exists).
That's a guy with mental issues in make-up and a dress
 
It's what happens when you tell people with mental issues they're OK to do whatever they want, it's everyone else who's wrong.
 
ASCPFC said:
This will be spun as a genuine trans being bullied. And to open our hearts and minds to trans etc. There will be rallies for trans - the shooter will be a victim of oppression. The exact opposite of what should be discussed.
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Yes, it's just another example of the liberal/left trying to normalise all sorts of weirdness and malevolence.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
I fully understand you don’t care what I want. You don’t care what anyone opposed to your type of politics wants.

We have never surrendered our democracy to anyone, not for even one moment. That you and all the brainwashed Brexiteers keep claiming it doesn’t make true. Delegation is not surrender. It’s cooperation in the interests of efficiency but something that can be, and was, withdrawn. Delegation is a necessary feature of every functioning society. Something we all do every day.

Do you actually read what I write, or just assume things? I very clearly said I did not want another referendum. I wanted Parliament to do what they are elected to do. Which is to represent us. Using their knowledge and the prevailing circumstances to decide. Not a politically motivated straw poll years ago. The only reason others wanted a second referendum was to prove to people like you that the majority opinion had shifted. Johnson, being the self serving man he is was aware he would lose, so refused.

You just don’t like uncomfortable truth being told to you.
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And yet the referendum was not democracy because politicians didn't do their jobs.
You didn't want any delegates then did you.

Your posts are an endless stream of contradictory codswallop.
 
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