US Politics

[Hrolf The Ganger]

This has nothing whatsoever to do with either the racial make up of those employed by ICE or of those they are targeting.

It only has to do with their behaviour, which has been directed by this scammy administration. Behaviour which has resulted in the deaths, and abuse, of US citizens. protesters

So the very diverse ICE agents are racial profiling, or they aren't?

And rounding up illegals is 'scammy' under Trump but OK under Obama and Biden?

The deaths were the result of loony activists interfering with the process. This was not an Ohio school situation. You and Neil Young can power down.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Yes, just so long as everyone is able to obtain their ID in time and a wide range of IDs are acceptable. It’s incumbent on the administration to ensure no group is disadvantaged by the requirements and to provide as much assistance as is needed to ensure total coverage.

That though does not appear to be the objective. Barriers are being considered which would make it hard for some to comply. It’s being politically exploited.

It would be surprising if most people in America don't carry some form of id. In Florida 6 years ago at Walmart/Walgreens an 80 year old trying to buy cigarettes was required to show valid id as proof of age and many of them won't accept a UK passport or drivers license.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

So the very diverse ICE agents are racial profiling, or they aren't?

And rounding up illegals is 'scammy' under Trump but OK under Obama and Biden?

The deaths were the result of loony activists interfering with the process. This was not an Ohio school situation. You and Neil Young can power down.

They are being directed to work that way, visiting neighbourhoods which have high levels of particular ethnicities and rounding up those who look like they could be illegal. That wasn’t the way it was done in the past as it’s illegal. You need probable cause to arrest a suspect.

No one interfered with any process. Protests were made about illegal behaviour.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

They are being directed to work that way, visiting neighbourhoods which have high levels of particular ethnicities and rounding up those who look like they could be illegal. That wasn’t the way it was done in the past as it’s illegal. You need probable cause to arrest a suspect.

No one interfered with any process. Protests were made about illegal behaviour.

Says who?

I would imagine that they are employing the most efficient system.

Perhaps the illegals are being hidden in certain communities, and ICE know this from previous experience.

That certainly happens in Britain and has done for decades.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It would be surprising if most people in America don't carry some form of id. In Florida 6 years ago at Walmart/Walgreens an 80 year old trying to buy cigarettes was required to show valid id as proof of age and many of them won't accept a UK passport or drivers license.

I agree but, if I understand what is being suggested correctly, it will only be a specific ID that will be acceptable and that ID won’t be easy to obtain for certain categories of people, requiring them to produce papers they don’t have.

Alongside that is the suggestion that staffing levels in certain Districts will be reduced and lengthy examinations of each ID from some locations insisted upon. This resulting in long lines and the expectation that some won’t bother, or give up.

It’s political interference. A bit like trying to find a few more votes.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I agree but, if I understand what is being suggested correctly, it will only be a specific ID that will be acceptable and that ID won’t be easy to obtain for certain categories of people, requiring them to produce papers they don’t have.

Alongside that is the suggestion that staffing levels in certain Districts will be reduced and lengthy examinations of each ID from some locations insisted upon. This resulting in long lines and the expectation that some won’t bother, or give up.

It’s political interference. A bit like trying to find a few more votes.

At the moment it's a pretty haphazard approach.

Voter ID requirements | USAGov

Each state sets its own voter ID rules. Most require you to bring identification to vote in person. Know your state’s voter ID laws before going to the polls.

www.usa.gov

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Says who?

I would imagine that they are employing the most efficient system.

Perhaps the illegals are being hidden in certain communities, and ICE know this from previous experience.

That certainly happens in Britain and has done for decades.

It may well be that communities hide illegals, both in the USA and here.

That though doesn’t give the police the right to ignore due process, or in the USA probable cause. The law must abide by the law, or the country becomes a police state. Break it and you hand any offender the perfect defence. Their lawyer simply claims habeas corpus.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

At the moment it's a pretty haphazard approach.

Voter ID requirements | USAGov

Each state sets its own voter ID rules. Most require you to bring identification to vote in person. Know your state’s voter ID laws before going to the polls.

www.usa.gov

The US constitution clearly places the responsibility for the way elections are organised and overseen on individual States and not on the Federal administration.

You can argue that needs to change but that requires an amendment to the constitution. As that requires both super majorities in the House and Senate and ratification by 2/3rds of the State legislatures any such amendment will need to be scrupulously fair and reasonable to stand any chance of passing.

I fear that though won’t stop Trump trying something this year.

 

[eaglesdare]

I guess the only way to stop Trump and Vance rigging the next election is to have voter ID 😏

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It may well be that communities hide illegals, both in the USA and here.

That though doesn’t give the police the right to ignore due process, or in the USA probable cause. The law must abide by the law, or the country becomes a police state. Break it and you hand any offender the perfect defence. Their lawyer simply claims habeas corpus.

Those harbouring illegals are subject to the law.
You are talking about things about which you have no expertise or experience. I doubt ICE agents need your advise on how to find and apprehend illegals. If due process was ignored, this would soon be exposed in court. You needn’t worry.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Quite the opposite. I mean, Proud Boys is just hiding in plain sight, isn’t it?

Unserious.

I mean I can appreciate the joke on one level....but I'll take it seriously just because it highlights the double standards on the left....ie they can make these jokes but they act offended if we make them.

Also it's a weird thing to make a joke about as your community is literally obsessed with gays and celebrating dead end sexuality.

You literally attend pride parades that celebrate degeneracy and indirectly promote linage death cloaked as something wonderful within a promiscuous lifestyle, despite the statistics having lots of downsides.

If a gay joins the Proud Boys, he's doing it because he rejects alphabet ideology and instead wants to fight for masculinity and the west against the vision the nihilist and deluded luxury communist left have for it....and he'll be welcome as a brother.

 

[Spiderman]

Yes, just so long as everyone is able to obtain their ID in time and a wide range of IDs are acceptable. It’s incumbent on the administration to ensure no group is disadvantaged by the requirements and to provide as much assistance as is needed to ensure total coverage.

That though does not appear to be the objective. Barriers are being considered which would make it hard for some to comply. It’s being politically exploited.

Surely any legal resident has ID already? Foreign nationals (legal) have green cards and US nationals have passports ( although many don’t) and driving licenses( I have not yet seen an US national of voting age that doesn’t have one), these are issued State by State.
Apologies just seen this has already been discussed

 

[Stirlingsays]

It may well be that communities hide illegals, both in the USA and here.

That though doesn’t give the police the right to ignore due process, or in the USA probable cause. The law must abide by the law, or the country becomes a police state. Break it and you hand any offender the perfect defence. Their lawyer simply claims habeas corpus.

You want a Police State to enforce what you believe in.

I think what you believe in is immoral.

Hence I want a Police State that's against some of the things that you believe in.

It's your opinion that the Police ignored due process. No court has said that.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Those harbouring illegals are subject to the law.
You are talking about things about which you have no expertise or experience. I doubt ICE agents need your advise on how to find and apprehend illegals. If due process was ignored, this would soon be exposed in court. You needn’t worry.

Of course those who are harbouring illegals are subject to the law, but the law must be applied lawfully and not at the whim of a President. That’s the whole point of the protests!

The ICE agents don’t need “advice” from me or anyone else. They need to be controlled by an administration which respects the law.

When an administrator tries to change due process the rights of individuals are threatened. Especially those without the funds to fight. The result being thousands of detainees being stuck in limbo.

Trump administration’s immigrant detention policy broadly rejected by federal judges

District courts have dismissed the administration’s efforts to detain virtually all undocumented immigrants without a bond hearing while they await deportation proceedings.

theconversation.com

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You want a Police State to enforce what you believe in.

I think what you believe in is immoral.

Hence I want a Police State that's against some of the things that you believe in.

It's your opinion that the Police ignored due process. No court has said that.

Untrue. 90% of habeas corpus cases brought by detainees against their detention have succeeded.

Trump administration’s immigrant detention policy broadly rejected by federal judges

District courts have dismissed the administration’s efforts to detain virtually all undocumented immigrants without a bond hearing while they await deportation proceedings.

theconversation.com

 

[Stirlingsays]

They know this. All they have is disingenuous arguments.

If they were disingenuous you would be able to show that.

Instead you run away from debates and refuse to answer the pointed out flaws in your posts.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Untrue. 90% of habeas corpus cases brought by detainees against their detention have succeeded.

Trump administration’s immigrant detention policy broadly rejected by federal judges

District courts have dismissed the administration’s efforts to detain virtually all undocumented immigrants without a bond hearing while they await deportation proceedings.

theconversation.com

That's purely on a point of law that different lawyers interpret differently.

Police will continue to arrest illegal migrants as they should.

Trump will be changing law so that your point here becomes meaningless.

Your politics is on the way out, just as it deserves.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I guess the only way to stop Trump and Vance rigging the next election is to have voter ID 😏

Not if they have their way!

According to Trump’s most recent statement he believes that elections need to be “nationalised” as the States are merely “agents” of the Federal government!

Which is, of course, completely wrong. The Federal government is an agent of the States. An agency which has specific powers delegated to it by the constitution. The constitution being the sole property of the States themselves.

This has the potential to become a full blown constitutional crisis as the USA is entering completely uncharted waters. Can the Supreme Court, dominated by Trump appointees, be relied upon? Would Trump respect a Supreme Court decision that went against him? The Supreme Court doesn’t have an army, or a para military police force ready to be despatched to voting stations.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Of course those who are harbouring illegals are subject to the law, but the law must be applied lawfully and not at the whim of a President. That’s the whole point of the protests!

The ICE agents don’t need “advice” from me or anyone else. They need to be controlled by an administration which respects the law.

When an administrator tries to change due process the rights of individuals are threatened. Especially those without the funds to fight. The result being thousands of detainees being stuck in limbo.

Trump administration’s immigrant detention policy broadly rejected by federal judges

District courts have dismissed the administration’s efforts to detain virtually all undocumented immigrants without a bond hearing while they await deportation proceedings.

theconversation.com

Federal judges? You trust them when it suits you.
We have already seen how neutral federal judges are. And posting one sided links is hardly convincing.

This is a political war. One side wants to align with illegal immigrant criminals while the other wants to deport them using all means necessary. I know which side I'm on.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That's purely on a point of law that different lawyers interpret differently.

Police will continue to arrest illegal migrants as they should.

Trump will be changing law so that your point here becomes meaningless.

Your politics is on the way out, just as it deserves.

Not lawyers! Judges in Courts. Not just Judges. Federal Judges in Federal Courts. Courts you claimed had never ruled against the detentions.

Trump cannot change the law. Congress changes the law. The President can either sign or veto but Congress can then over rule with a super majority.

My politics have nothing to do with demanding respect for the law.