Reform

[Willo]

Both the Conservatives and Labour see Reform as the main threat and are constantly attacking both the Reform party in general and Farage in particular.

What does that tell you?

The disaster of the past ten years immigration policy under the Conservatives and particularly under Boris cannot be brushed away as a fallibility.

The disaster of the Conservative's immigration policies for both legals and illegals is constantly dismissed as " wasn't me " by senior Shadow figures in interviews, that just won't do, where is the personal accountability

How do you know that leaving the ECHR under Reform would be better or worse or different to leaving under the Conservatives.?

We have not "Brushed away any culpability.
In terms of the last government there were some very fair grievances and we fully accept why we lost the trust of the electorate.
Learning from our mistakes has to be part of the recovery process.

Apropos the ECHR our report is a serious, detailed piece of work. We know that getting it right is exceedingly important.
Lord Wolfson KC has carried out out the most serious review ever undertaken of Britain’s ECHR membership.
For years, politicians have promised to take back control. But time and again, when we tried to act in Britain’s interests, we were blocked. Not by voters, but by judges in Strasbourg.
The European Convention on Human Rights was never meant to overrule our democracy. Yet today, it is holding Britain back.

Leaving the ECHR is far from easy but it can be done and the Conservatives are strong and capable enough to do it properly.No other party has done the detailed homework.
Unlike other parties who treat leaving like it’s a slogan or a silver bullet, we recognise the complexity. That is precisely why we have a plan built on months of hard work and detailed legal preparation.
Leaving the ECHR will not be simple. It will take courage, competence and careful reform. It will mean rewriting laws, reconfiguring international arrangements, and restoring the principle that British laws are made by the British Parliament.

High time that I 'Hit the hay' ! Goodnight to one and all.

 

[HKOwen]

We have not "Brushed away any culpability.
In terms of the last government there were some very fair grievances and we fully accept why we lost the trust of the electorate.
Learning from our mistakes has to be part of the recovery process.

Apropos the ECHR our report is a serious, detailed piece of work. We know that getting it right is exceedingly important.
Lord Wolfson KC has carried out out the most serious review ever undertaken of Britain’s ECHR membership.
For years, politicians have promised to take back control. But time and again, when we tried to act in Britain’s interests, we were blocked. Not by voters, but by judges in Strasbourg.
The European Convention on Human Rights was never meant to overrule our democracy. Yet today, it is holding Britain back.

Leaving the ECHR is far from easy but it can be done and the Conservatives are strong and capable enough to do it properly.No other party has done the detailed homework.
Unlike other parties who treat leaving like it’s a slogan or a silver bullet, we recognise the complexity. That is precisely why we have a plan built on months of hard work and detailed legal preparation.
Leaving the ECHR will not be simple. It will take courage, competence and careful reform. It will mean rewriting laws, reconfiguring international arrangements, and restoring the principle that British laws are made by the British Parliament.

High time that I 'Hit the hay' ! Goodnight to one and all.

I am not sure how you are able to know what detailed work Reform have done in relation to leaving the ECHR, or what complexity they recognise. There are other KC's available, the legalities required are not exclusive to the Conservatives. If the Conservatives are truly committed to leaving the ECHR then in the event Reform do form the next Government then the Conservatives should share any info they have that can help leave. If not it would show they were not committed to leaving at all. Rock and hard place when you are second to the policy

 

[Willo]

I am not sure how you are able to know what detailed work Reform have done in relation to leaving the ECHR, or what complexity they recognise. There are other KC's available, the legalities required are not exclusive to the Conservatives. If the Conservatives are truly committed to leaving the ECHR then in the event Reform do form the next Government then the Conservatives should share any info they have that can help leave. If not it would show they were not committed to leaving at all. Rock and hard place when you are second to the policy

We are wholeheartedly committed to leaving the ECHR.

 

[Badger11]

I'm still not convinced that leaving the ECHR is necessary.

Other European countries seem to manage there immigration issues without being overruled by the ECHR. The problem as I see it as how the legislation is written in the UK and how the courts interpret it.

So change the law and we should be fine. Of course if the Supreme Court then overruled Parliament that would be a different matter but for now I would just focus on Parliament fixing the problem (if they want to).

 

[Willo]

I'm still not convinced that leaving the ECHR is necessary.

Other European countries seem to manage there immigration issues without being overruled by the ECHR. The problem as I see it as how the legislation is written in the UK and how the courts interpret it.

So change the law and we should be fine. Of course if the Supreme Court then overruled Parliament that would be a different matter but for now I would just focus on Parliament fixing the problem (if they want to).

In addition to leaving the ECHR, we are also committed to leaving ECAT and repealing the HRA.
Other measures include banning asylum claims for illegal entrants and ceasing the Immigration Tribunal, Judicial Review and legal aid for immigration cases.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

In addition to leaving the ECHR, we are also committed to leaving ECAT and repealing the HRA.
Other measures include banning asylum claims for illegal entrants and ceasing the Immigration Tribunal, Judicial Review and legal aid for immigration cases.

None of this tough talk from Tory or Labour would be happening if it weren't for Reform.
Why should anyone trust the latecomers over the original?

It all just smells of blatant political expediency.

 

[HKOwen]

In addition to leaving the ECHR, we are also committed to leaving ECAT and repealing the HRA.
Other measures include banning asylum claims for illegal entrants and ceasing the Immigration Tribunal, Judicial Review and legal aid for immigration cases.

Very Reformist

All of these measures should and could have been done pre the last general election but were not even considered until Reform showed they were a real threat.

Farage and Kemi both giving economic speeches same time today.

 

[Willo]

None of this tough talk from Tory or Labour would be happening if it weren't for Reform.
Why should anyone trust the latecomers over the original?

It all just smells of blatant political expediency.

Not "Blatant political expediency" as far as the Conservatives are concerned.
I have heard the view advanced that politically there is the argument that if Labour succeeds in relation to immigration whilst the Conservatives pivot to the economy, Reform could possibly get put back in their box.
I shall now concentrate my efforts on the football debates ! I have a hectic political existence outside of HOL !! 👍

 

[beak]

Not "Blatant political expediency" as far as the Conservatives are concerned.
I have heard the view advanced that politically there is the argument that if Labour succeeds in relation to immigration whilst the Conservatives pivot to the economy, Reform could possibly get put back in their box.
I shall now concentrate my efforts on the football debates ! I have a hectic political existence outside of HOL !! 👍

You will have more luck with the football in horse racing parlance it has to be said your political party is a non runner.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

None of this tough talk from Tory or Labour would be happening if it weren't for Reform.
Why should anyone trust the latecomers over the original?

It all just smells of blatant political expediency.

None of this would be happening if there weren’t any illegal immigrants claiming asylum.

As Reform’s surge in popularity can largely be attributed to them it makes perfect sense to concentrate on practical ways to alleviate the problem and expose the true nature of the latest Farage confidence trick powered vehicle.

When the essence of any populist political movement is simply to promise to do what would be popular, without regard to whether it is either feasible or affordable, exposing this is a duty placed on every responsible politician.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Not "Blatant political expediency" as far as the Conservatives are concerned.
I have heard the view advanced that politically there is the argument that if Labour succeeds in relation to immigration whilst the Conservatives pivot to the economy, Reform could possibly get put back in their box.
I shall now concentrate my efforts on the football debates ! I have a hectic political existence outside of HOL !! 👍

I would like Labour to succeed with illegal immigration. I put country first. I'm not optimistic about their chances.
Illegal immigration, although a having a big impact on crime, is still only a relatively small number of people. There are far too many regular migrants arriving. That also needs to be dealt with.

None of these U turns on policy by either Labour or Tory would be happening without Nigel Farage. He is the most influential man in politics and therefore well placed to lead the country.

 

[cryrst]

None of this would be happening if there weren’t any illegal immigrants claiming asylum.

As Reform’s surge in popularity can largely be attributed to them it makes perfect sense to concentrate on practical ways to alleviate the problem and expose the true nature of the latest Farage confidence trick powered vehicle.

When the essence of any populist political movement is simply to promise to do what would be popular, without regard to whether it is either feasible or affordable, exposing this is a duty placed on every responsible politician.

The most obvious statement ever in your first line. But we have and it needs dealing with. Most parties have a single major pledge. Labours was to stop Rwanda flights instantly. That went well. Rishi did actually state that labour would cost us 2 k each. He was spot on with that and if he had gotten the Rwanda scheme going he would still be in power. It appears many millions rightly or wrongly see immigration as a no 1 issue. The party that deals with it will succeed.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The most obvious statement ever in your first line. But we have and it needs dealing with. Most parties have a single major pledge. Labours was to stop Rwanda flights instantly. That went well. Rishi did actually state that labour would cost us 2 k each. He was spot on with that and if he had gotten the Rwanda scheme going he would still be in power. It appears many millions rightly or wrongly see immigration as a no 1 issue. The party that deals with it will succeed.

Too many conflate, or at least confuse, illegal immigration with legal immigration.

Stopping, or at least, drastically reducing, illegal immigration ought to be a cross party priority and not a political football. It’s in no one’s interest except the smugglers. How we do it is the problem and not if we should.

Accepting that legal immigration is something that is either necessary, or socially desirable, on occasions is obvious to me. How much depends on many things.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Too many conflate, or at least confuse, illegal immigration with legal immigration.

Stopping, or at least, drastically reducing, illegal immigration ought to be a cross party priority and not a political football. It’s in no one’s interest except the smugglers. How we do it is the problem and not if we should.

Accepting that legal immigration is something that is either necessary, or socially desirable, on occasions is obvious to me. How much depends on many things.

Only a couple of things and it should be about a fifth of what it is. So many decent people are leaving because it’s becoming a sh1t hole. If we leave it to you and your liberals immigration will only slow once England becomes such a sh1t hole that people don’t want to come. But many Muslims won’t care if it’s such a sh1t hole because their life is so insular involving local work or often no work at all, praying as close as possible and eating cheap food from Muslim grocers. Never go out and spend money in the economy. The last time I saw it abroad they used the tables and chairs and brought their own stuff. The height of rudeness and ignorance.

 

[HKOwen]

Only a couple of things and it should be about a fifth of what it is. So many decent people are leaving because it’s becoming a sh1t hole. If we leave it to you and your liberals immigration will only slow once England becomes such a sh1t hole that people don’t want to come. But many Muslims won’t care if it’s such a sh1t hole because their life is so insular involving local work or often no work at all, praying as close as possible and eating cheap food from Muslim grocers. Never go out and spend money in the economy. The last time I saw it abroad they used the tables and chairs and brought their own stuff. The height of rudeness and ignorance.

WE is certainly an expert on conflation and confusion

 

[silvertop]

We have not "Brushed away any culpability.
In terms of the last government there were some very fair grievances and we fully accept why we lost the trust of the electorate.
Learning from our mistakes has to be part of the recovery process.

Apropos the ECHR our report is a serious, detailed piece of work. We know that getting it right is exceedingly important.
Lord Wolfson KC has carried out out the most serious review ever undertaken of Britain’s ECHR membership.
For years, politicians have promised to take back control. But time and again, when we tried to act in Britain’s interests, we were blocked. Not by voters, but by judges in Strasbourg.
The European Convention on Human Rights was never meant to overrule our democracy. Yet today, it is holding Britain back.

Leaving the ECHR is far from easy but it can be done and the Conservatives are strong and capable enough to do it properly.No other party has done the detailed homework.
Unlike other parties who treat leaving like it’s a slogan or a silver bullet, we recognise the complexity. That is precisely why we have a plan built on months of hard work and detailed legal preparation.
Leaving the ECHR will not be simple. It will take courage, competence and careful reform. It will mean rewriting laws, reconfiguring international arrangements, and restoring the principle that British laws are made by the British Parliament.

High time that I 'Hit the hay' ! Goodnight to one and all.

Again, why leave the ECHR? Why not just the bits relating to immigration and asylum applications? Most of it has nothing to do with anything any reasonable person could possibly object to.

Promises to leave the ECHR completely should be received as opportunist promises by people who cannot be trusted.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Again, why leave the ECHR? Why not just the bits relating to immigration and asylum applications? Most of it has nothing to do with anything any reasonable person could possibly object to.

Promises to leave the ECHR completely should be received as opportunist promises by people who cannot be trusted.

Article three and eight basically.

You can't pick and choose what parts you agree with and unless they are rewritten to allow the country to do what it wants we have to leave.

We don't need oversight from foreign judges.

 

[silvertop]

Article three and eight basically.

You can't pick and choose what parts you agree with and unless they are rewritten to allow the country to do what it wants we have to leave.

We don't need oversight from foreign judges.

You can pretty much negotiate anything if the prevailing wind permits.

And the wind is currently blowing in a very different direction to the one that blew when the ECHR came into being.

Difficult. Not impossible.

 

[Stirlingsays]

You can pretty much negotiate anything if the prevailing wind permits.

And the wind is currently blowing in a very different direction to the one that blew when the ECHR came into being.

Difficult. Not impossible.

For one, the ECHR were happy for Britain to labour under these laws knowing they frustrated sovereignty on the ability to deport.

Two, talk is cheap, nothing has changed and I'm well aware they would do as little as possible.

So remind me, why should I give a feck about what these foreign judges think?

They have given nothing useful and only hurt the right in the country.

 

[steeleye20]

'They have given nothing useful and only hurt the right in the country'.

Mutually exclusive.

🙂