World cup 2026

Yes, you just had to compare England’s last 30 minutes with Spain the night before. Spain, knowing they were going to be pressured, maintained some attacking intensity but more importantly controlled the midfield wheras England moved their midfield back into the defensive line thereby putting all our eggs in a defend at all costs basket. It was a shocking decision by Tuchel which I could have understood if there was 10 minutes left, but not half an hour plus extra time still on the clock.

I honestly think Tuchel did not take enough midfielders with him, the joke of a selection in Henderson and obviously did not fancy Mainoo either. Eze can’t compete in a match like that either so where was the replacement bite that was needed? The answer is it was left at home.

Difficult To argue with any of that, only that it was the players that fell back into a defend at all costs mindset first, Tuchel then validated their actions with his subs, when he should have been fighting to change it.
 
The game always comes down to control. Once we scored, we completely lost control. We had a decent amount of possession before the goal, but it was mostly sideways passing that never really threatened Argentina.

Sideways, sideways, back to Pickford, then a long ball forward and try to press from there. Even our goal came from a long ball over the top rather than sustained control or creativity.

We didn't take a player capable of controlling the tempo of a game. You could argue England doesn't have a player in the mould of Rodri, Pedri or Modrić. Maybe Wharton, but he shares a lot of that role with Kamada.

Look at the top Premier League clubs and the player who controls midfield is almost always a foreign international: Liverpool have Mac Allister and Gravenberch, Chelsea have Enzo Fernández/Caicedo, Arsenal have Zubimendi and had Partey, and Manchester City have Rodri.

The more you think about it, when was the last English midfielder who genuinely controlled games at the highest level for a top club? Michael Carrick is probably the closest, yet he barely got a look-in for England. Paul Scholes, was often pushed out to the left to accommodate others.

Until England start recognising, appreciating and developing midfielders who can dictate the tempo of matches, they'll continue to struggle against the very best international sides.
 
Strange that loss didint hurt as much as it normally does. I am fairly already over it.

Must have somthing to do with my other team winning a few trophies recently 😅
I felt the same, up until yesterday, given the ridiculous squad he chose. However, given the way the Argentinians behave, I am gutted and so angry at Tuchel tactics, that gave the game away. Will FIFA punish the Argentinians? Will they f***
 
Difficult To argue with any of that, only that it was the players that fell back into a defend at all costs mindset first, Tuchel then validated their actions with his subs, when he should have been fighting to change it.
I agree, the players did drop off, but we will never know if that was a phase of the game they would have ridden out before getting more of a foothold because, as you say, the manger fixed the problem by making it irreversible!

Plus, the actual details of his tweaks were terrible. The Argies were swinging in crosses from level with the edge of the box. Moving to a 532 system removed wingers from our shape, so there was no longer anyone in the spaces from which the balls were being crossed. What's that about?!

The wingbacks, who then had no help in front of them, ended up getting dragged out to where the winger would have been, thereby leaving a gap behind them. A bloody dangerous one. That in turn pulls the outside centre back over to that gap, so he's not in the middle to head the bloody ball out anyway! Moreover, you can't shuffle over and around like that faster than the ball moves. By the time you get there its almost always too late, or you're on the move and not set to defend the 1v1.

He belatedly tried to solve some of this by moving to 541, but any good he might have done was undone by the personnel he brought on and the total surrender of momentum. We could never get back on top by then.

Honestly, I don't even care that much about the England team normally, and I certainly don't hold with blaming the manager for every little thing players do, but in this instance it was very largely down to Tuchel.

I know that sometimes a manager makes sensible changes and his team still loses, other times he makes poor ones but wins, so my views are not dictated by the result. If we had won it would have been the luckiest result ever, based on how the game went.

If you didn't know about his CV you'd look at the way the team played throughout the tournament, then at his subs and changes in the semi and conclude that, at best, he had been ineffective and, at worst, was totally out of his depth.
 
Sshhh, you naughty boy. As if Trump might do something underhand just to see a South American team win.
Is it Trump or the corrupt Infantino? Personally I would like to see all European countries, withdraw from FIFA. Play the Euros at the same time, who would the sponsors want to cover? England v Germany or Argentina v Mali?
 
I think other teams had more flow and cohesion than England largely because the combination of their best XI happened to have a more natural balance to it, or to naturally generate a style more suited to tournament football.

I don't think its very much to do with training ground work, as they have so little time to do any. Plus, that stuff tends to take hold over the medium term following however many weeks and months of perseverance. What it tends to come down to is simply, what is our best XI?

In England's case, I think it's a matter of Kane and Bellingham must play, and fair enough perhaps, they are our only two world class players at the highest club level. However, neither of them has pace to run behind so straight away the team is lacking a fundamental element, and may struggle to get out when under pressure.

Then, our most talented wide players are probably Saka and Rashford, but both of them come to the ball and dribble inside. They never give much width or run in behind. So if we pick our four best attacking players it doesn't naturally provide an effective blend of styles, with threat behind and width. Tuchel tried to overcome this by using different types of wide players, only to find that whilst Gordon and Madueke offer better balance, they have much less quality.

Compare that to France, where their best four front players naturally gel. That's what you want. Or, to have so few outstanding individuals that you just pick according to tactical balance. England haven't ever had either. We want to pick our best players, of course, but they don't really go well together. It's always been like that.

None of which means Tuchel is any good. He might be useless at picking a squad, then a team, and then organising it. I just doubt that even an excellent manager would make much difference. Look at Ancellotti. Probably the best manager of the modern age, with plenty of good players, but even he wasn't able to install cohesion and flow.

None of which lets Tuchel off the hook for the most catastrophic display of in-game decision making I've ever seen. They literally would have had a far better chance to win without a manager last night. I mean, he was deadly wrong twice, firstly in his arrogance to think it was down to him to affect the game from the dugout rather than leaving the players to play, and secondly in the awful, match-losing decisions he then made. I hope the players have told him so (they probably haven't).

However, I think that perhaps the temptation to tinker in games is bourn of how little influence the manager feels he can have on the teams play otherwise.
Let’s also consider his squad choice:
No natural LB
Picking players who were injured or not playing regularly : Jordan Henderson, Saka , Stones
Picking players who are not up to it: Mainoo, Burn, Madueke, Toney

Not picking players who may have made a difference: Wharton ( can unpick a defence with one pass), MGW ( highest scoring MF in PL) , Bowen ( look at his goals and assists in a poor team).Mitchell, maybe not the best going forward but probably best LB defensive wise, how we could have done with him ,last night. Cole Palmer
How many minutes did Eze, Rashford , Watkins get?

I put the abject performance totally on Tuchel, whatever he says
 
Why the players didn't think for themselves I will never know, or are they so stupid & unable too?
TBF when you see Gordon being replaced by Quansah, rather than Rashford or Watkins and then Burn coming on, what are you meant to do? So obvious when Argentina had to push forward we needed an outlet, he refused to give us one
 
It appears they are.Perhaps they should call the FA’s bluff and all threaten to withdraw from International football
That just shows how out of step he was with the mood and confidence of the players that they could see it through if left to get on.

How will they trust him now that he has failed to trust them when it mattered most?
 
The game always comes down to control. Once we scored, we completely lost control. We had a decent amount of possession before the goal, but it was mostly sideways passing that never really threatened Argentina.

Sideways, sideways, back to Pickford, then a long ball forward and try to press from there. Even our goal came from a long ball over the top rather than sustained control or creativity.

We didn't take a player capable of controlling the tempo of a game. You could argue England doesn't have a player in the mould of Rodri, Pedri or Modrić. Maybe Wharton, but he shares a lot of that role with Kamada.

Look at the top Premier League clubs and the player who controls midfield is almost always a foreign international: Liverpool have Mac Allister and Gravenberch, Chelsea have Enzo Fernández/Caicedo, Arsenal have Zubimendi and had Partey, and Manchester City have Rodri.

The more you think about it, when was the last English midfielder who genuinely controlled games at the highest level for a top club? Michael Carrick is probably the closest, yet he barely got a look-in for England. Paul Scholes, was often pushed out to the left to accommodate others.

Until England start recognising, appreciating and developing midfielders who can dictate the tempo of matches, they'll continue to struggle against the very best international sides.
They need a striker to replace an ageing Harry Kane too.
 
Probably already been said but for all the talk of trying to stop messi before the game, what a great idea to go deep after scoring and letting him have the ball for 30 mins, I cant remember a manager getting it so tactically wrong in such a big game. Its inexcusable.
 
Probably already been said but for all the talk of trying to stop messi before the game, what a great idea to go deep after scoring and letting him have the ball for 30 mins, I cant remember a manager getting it so tactically wrong in such a big game. Its inexcusable.
Even Messi has apparently said he can’t believe how much space he suddenly had and how easy it became for their whole team. Germans are usually efficient, trust us to get the one German who made us play like the keystone cops🤣

But seriously we looked disjointed the whole tournament, it was obvious he didn’t know what his best team was, if it wasn’t for belly baby dragging us through the Norwegians would and should’ve wiped the floor with us before we even got to the argies
 
Even Messi has apparently said he can’t believe how much space he suddenly had and how easy it became for their whole team. Germans are usually efficient, trust us to get the one German who made us play like the keystone cops🤣

But seriously we looked disjointed the whole tournament, it was obvious he didn’t know what his best team was, if it wasn’t for belly baby dragging us through the Norwegians would and should’ve wiped the floor with us before we even got to the argies

I actually couldnt belive it when he took Gordon off for konsa, I knew what was coming, this is after we've just scored a great goal finding one winger in space who then crosses to our other winger who showed great movement in the box.

We then go to a back 5 with a narrow midfield to then leave messi all the space in the world on the right, to put in dangerous cross after dangerous cross. It was like we was doing everything possible to lose the game after going a goal up.

Spain would have made us look silly in the final anyway.
 

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