the silurian
Member
- Location
- The garden of England.(not really)
- Country
England
wouldnt count on that!!
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Working Class
- Topic starter Badger11
- Start date
He continually demonstrates his political incompetence and distance from normal people
Dubai Eagle
Member
- Country
-
England
Just on this point of taxing landlords more-
Renting a property out is not all sunshine & roses -
Pay the rental agent (+ vat)
Pay tax on the rental income.
General upkeep of the property + vat on labour & materials.
Interior repaint & fiddly jobs every time a tenancy changes.
Agent fees every time a tenancy changes ( inventory, marketing, credit checks , viewings, documentation etc etc)
Electrical, Gas & Energy certificates
Insurances on the property & against tenant defaulting
No income during time between tenants,
Paying council tax on the property if there is no occupant.
Of course the property appreciates in value with the local market conditions -but if you sell it you will pay CGT on any profit or IHT if you leave it to the kids
& you want to take more off landlords in tax ?
Higher taxes on landlords will surely mean higher rental costs to tenants who are largely already renting because they cant afford to get on the housing ladder & in turn higher rentals will mean more defaulters on tenancy contracts.
Not to mention the large army of DHS tenants where the rent is paid by the local council, which in turn means that your council tax will go up.
Dubai Eagle
Member
- Country
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England
To return to the original question -
I would have historically considered blue collar workers as working class & white collar workers as middle class, but not really having thought about it for many a year I would have to say that my view comes from a bygone age when we had a real manufacturing / industrial base.
I would have historically considered blue collar workers as working class & white collar workers as middle class, but not really having thought about it for many a year I would have to say that my view comes from a bygone age when we had a real manufacturing / industrial base.
PalazioVecchio
Member
- Location
- south pole
- Country
Netherlands
Ever noticed how those who work the most seem to have the fewest kids ? and the Corollary is also true. This is especially true of the women, although the men also get included in the statistics.
In other words, some people do nothing but contribute to UK plc. And others are a total drain on the exchequer. Dole, schooling, the NHS, policing, etc. Living in towns that would have been abandoned & derelict in the US or Spain or Italy.
Net contributors get clobbered with income tax, inheritance tax, and even their enormous annual Travelcard bill ....which is basically a hefty tax from Sadiq.
the true 'Working Classes' are carrying everybody else.
In other words, some people do nothing but contribute to UK plc. And others are a total drain on the exchequer. Dole, schooling, the NHS, policing, etc. Living in towns that would have been abandoned & derelict in the US or Spain or Italy.
Net contributors get clobbered with income tax, inheritance tax, and even their enormous annual Travelcard bill ....which is basically a hefty tax from Sadiq.
the true 'Working Classes' are carrying everybody else.
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Teddy Eagle
Member
- Country
Scotland
That's a classic definition. It's not to do with money; are tube drivers working class? As of October they're on £67,500 which is more than the majority of their passengers (they also get free travel in London for themselves and a partner and can retire on a full pension at 60).
In traditional sociological terms one definition was to do with what was called deferred and instant gratification of desires - working class people were seen as more likely to go into debt, or spend whatever they had, to buy what they wanted whereas "middle class" people would be more likely to save up. Credit cards have no doubt somewhat changed this view.
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Rudi Hedman
Member
- Location
- Caterham
- Country
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England
I didn’t say I want to take more off landlords in tax but if it’s a choice of taxing lower paid workers or landlords it should be landlords before. I get the things that have to be done, and they include admin, manual labour and risk. The admin is hardly difficult. The small manual labour is done by the landlord instead of hiring people to maximise profit. The risk is self explanatory.
I would rather there was less tax all round but that isn’t realistic, so I can understand why it’s this rather than tax low earners. If this upsets SOME, not all landlords, then that’s a shame, but I agree they have to be careful to not go too hard on this because of the risk of rental prices going too high.
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I think it clear from the different responses that working class is not a concept that can easily be defined these days and so Starmer should have steered well clear of it. Many Labour supporters have good salary jobs e.g. public service workers / management so I would have avoided talking about working or middle class as the grounded between the two is muddied.
Starmer should have stuck to talking about the low paid which is a far easier concept.
Starmer should have stuck to talking about the low paid which is a far easier concept.
Hrolf The Ganger
Member
- Location
- a sofa somewhere in Kent.
- Country
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England
The whole concept of working class is outdated nonsense.
Labour used the phrase as a feeble attempt to claim that they still represent the ordinary man/woman.
It's amateur hour politics, which was bound to backfire and be exposed as the dishonest drivel it is.
Those people who have assets got them somehow. Most got them by working. Very few people get money by doing nothing. Middle earners and responsible people always get hammered under Labour. Then they spend the money on schemes that are usually useless and aimed at supporting those that have contributed little or nothing to society.
If that silly cow raises inheritance tax, it will prove once and for all that Labour does not stand for social mobility. Wealth passed on through generations is the best way to elevate people's status and living standards. This is how many of the upper crust of society got their money. When one gets closer to one's swan song, these are the things you start to care about.
Being able to have a comfortable life just by working is becoming more and more difficult for many. It affects relationships, birthrate, children's upbringing, health and quality of life in general. Getting an inheritance can give a huge hand up to people with money that has usually been taxed and mortgaged at least once already.
The current 40% rate for siblings is taking the piss already. A further increase would be a national disgrace.
Labour used the phrase as a feeble attempt to claim that they still represent the ordinary man/woman.
It's amateur hour politics, which was bound to backfire and be exposed as the dishonest drivel it is.
Those people who have assets got them somehow. Most got them by working. Very few people get money by doing nothing. Middle earners and responsible people always get hammered under Labour. Then they spend the money on schemes that are usually useless and aimed at supporting those that have contributed little or nothing to society.
If that silly cow raises inheritance tax, it will prove once and for all that Labour does not stand for social mobility. Wealth passed on through generations is the best way to elevate people's status and living standards. This is how many of the upper crust of society got their money. When one gets closer to one's swan song, these are the things you start to care about.
Being able to have a comfortable life just by working is becoming more and more difficult for many. It affects relationships, birthrate, children's upbringing, health and quality of life in general. Getting an inheritance can give a huge hand up to people with money that has usually been taxed and mortgaged at least once already.
The current 40% rate for siblings is taking the piss already. A further increase would be a national disgrace.
My family were dirt poor, we owned nothing. However my parents encouraged us kids to work hard. We all ended up with good jobs and decent salaries so my nieces and nephews have started their lives far better off than we did. As I said previously I consider myself working class, my story I suspect is one most of you will say, same for me.
The old concept of Working Class is outdated and perhaps a better description for people at the bottom of the pyramid today is Benefits Class. Middle class can be anyone who earns a living from minimum wage on upwards. The middle class are essentially the majority people who pay the taxes that run the country.
Willo
Member
- Location
- West Sussex - On the coast
- Country
-
England
Leading up to and during the Election campaign, Labour's incessant mantra contained the words "Working People" coughed out as a field gun dispenses shells.
Labour have got into a 'Pickle' as an array of their politicians cannot describe what Labour mean by "Working people" and they squirm under interrogation, the media needling and gnawing away at them like jabbering woodpeckers.
Labour have got into a 'Pickle' as an array of their politicians cannot describe what Labour mean by "Working people" and they squirm under interrogation, the media needling and gnawing away at them like jabbering woodpeckers.
PalazioVecchio
Member
- Location
- south pole
- Country
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Netherlands
Tube drivers ? you forgot to mention how many hours they work per week, their holiday allowances, how few of them ever got fired, their working culture , what school-grades are required to get this job, the protections their Trade Union offers them and most pertinently....how little threat their job ever suffers from newcomers joining.
in my humble opinion, they have a lot less stress & grief than most of their passengers.
Jimenez
Member
- Location
- SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX
- Country
USA
A huge swathe of the Labour party have left school then worked as interns or researchers & are then parachuted into safe Labour seats. Most have never done a meaningful days 'work' in their lives so to call themselves the party of the 'Working Man/Woman' isn't far off parody.
I would place a sizeable bet on it.
PalazioVecchio
Member
- Location
- south pole
- Country
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Netherlands
not just the UK Labour Party. Imagine climbing to the top, of the greasy pole, without ever having held a proper job ? PM , Deputy PM, Chancellor of Exchequer , President, Opposition Leader , Justice Minister , etc etc
Simon Harris - Wikipedia
Michael D. Higgins - Wikipedia
Micheál Martin - Wikipedia
Mary Lou McDonald - Wikipedia
Helen McEntee - Wikipedia
Jack Chambers (politician) - Wikipedia
Imagine a whole political cadre, discussing the needs of the Working Person. A political class, on all sides of the house. Helping the working classes, Having never been one themselves. Having pretty much never worked in a real job.
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This happens in every political party it is a shame.not just the UK Labour Party. Imagine climbing to the top, of the greasy pole, without ever having held a proper job ?
Simon Harris - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I've always thought those three qualities were essential for a successful politician.
Come on old bean. Surely you know that it's football and rugby v. soccer and rugger.
On the original point, I think Starmer should have stated his case as follows:
Interviewer: What do you mean by working people?
Starmer: I mean people whose income is derived mainly from working.
Interviewer: Can you define mainly?
Starmer: 95% or more.
Interviewer: So someone earning £40k with investment income of £2k will pay more tax.
Starmer: It's not something we want to do, but unprecedented situation, enormous black hole, 14 years, blah blah.....
Interviewer: But that person will pay more tax.
Starmer: Well, if you want to put it that way.
(That's me done for today.)
Interviewer: What do you mean by working people?
Starmer: I mean people whose income is derived mainly from working.
Interviewer: Can you define mainly?
Starmer: 95% or more.
Interviewer: So someone earning £40k with investment income of £2k will pay more tax.
Starmer: It's not something we want to do, but unprecedented situation, enormous black hole, 14 years, blah blah.....
Interviewer: But that person will pay more tax.
Starmer: Well, if you want to put it that way.
(That's me done for today.)