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Working Class

B

Badger11

Member
Location
Beckenham
Country
England
Starmer has got himself into a right pickle over the definition of Working Class. The tabloids and even the BBC are now pressing him for a definition and ridiculing his answer.

But is it fair?

I am no fan of his and I think this week's budget will show that Labour have broken their election pledges on taxation but leaving that aside let's just focus on what is Working Class.

Like Starmer I am not sure I can give a precise definition. Growing up (council house, dad was an electrician and mum housewife / part time cleaner) I would definitely say I was working class. Back then I thought anyone who worked in an office was middle class.

However I really don't know how you define it today. I am tempted to say anyone who works for a living is working class. Does salary have anything today with it? If so at what level do you cease to be working class? Or is it your upbringing? I spent my career working for banks so does that make me middle class, I have always describe myself as working class and proud because of my childhood.

I have no sympathy for Starmer struggling to define what a woman is but regarding class I think the press are being unfair, I've not yet heard any of them provide a good definition.

Thought please.
 
Traditional definition of working class is working in unskilled or semi-skilled jobs. I believe it has been expanded somewhat. I think there are different levels of working class.
Also, money wise, Middle class tends to be able to afford holidays etc.
The definitions have largely been blurred by the rise of the middle class - and, of course, the way tradesmen, even painters and decorators etc will earn miles more than working in an office. In fact, factory workers often earn more now.
 
This latest error is another incident and example of poor messaging and thinking. It’s true he has got himself in a hole over this interview, but I don’t think it’ll last. The outrage at having to pay more CGTax will overshadow it.

Labour doesn’t represent many people now. It represents benefit claimants which indeed includes low earners on universal credit, refugees and asylum seekers, foreign citizens with foreign aid etc and any minority in GB, especially new ones like the trans movement.

The classes in this country are so blurred now but Starmer hasn’t got the common sense to steer clear of that. Many people own shares, not just rich people, but that’s what he means in his head I expect.

I do see their point on taxing landlords more, but I also see that they should be aware that it could just lead to higher rents and fewer rentals, although that could either lead to more properties to buy or buy ups by bigger corporations to control the rental market (something that could happen in farming like in the US) But anyway…

A video on X has LBC’s James o Brien getting a landlord realising that her passive income isn’t the hard earned income she thinks it is. She’s right that she worked hard to get the deposit and mortgage together and get started, and that’s the point. It was her working at her job to be able to start it which was the hard work, not the money coming in and arranging a cooker to be replaced or cleaning it herself every 6-12 months. I have no issue with landlords having to pay more tax, but there is a concern with how it affects the market.

It’s the way Starmer said it that’s the problem. There was no need to go on about ‘’working people’’ and ‘people who can sort a problem out by writing a cheque’’ and working people who can’t. He could’ve just said they’re going to increase CGT as a way of tackling the cost of living crisis for millions of people and paying for services that need more government funding because they’ve fallen apart. His mouth gets him in trouble…

‘‘Tis better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.’’

You can also start slipping up by the other person’s silence by feeling the need to break the silence with rubbish. Starmer doesn’t realise this stuff.
 
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To answer you properly, it isn't one thing, as you said yourself, you were brought up 'working class' then worked in banks which was 'middle class'. I think back before the 70's there was class distinction, then came Thatcher & the 'loadsamoney' era & then class became muddied, only the 'upper' class has stayed the same.

My grandparents(mum's side) were Geordies, he was a miner & she was housewife with 16 kids to contend with, so they were definitely working class. My father after we moved into the UK & he got demobbed from the RAF, was a musician & also a teacher, my mother raised the 3 of us but worked part-time in an office, so i suppose in the 60's onwards they were considered lower middle class.

I believe nowadays it's what the media like to label people(usually wrongly), as to what 'class' you are. Is there such a thing as working/middle class anymore?
 
eagleman13 said:
To answer you properly, it isn't one thing, as you said yourself, you were brought up 'working class' then worked in banks which was 'middle class'. I think back before the 70's there was class distinction, then came Thatcher & the 'loadsamoney' era & then class became muddied, only the 'upper' class has stayed the same.

My grandparents(mum's side) were Geordies, he was a miner & she was housewife with 16 kids to contend with, so they were definitely working class. My father after we moved into the UK & he got demobbed from the RAF, was a musician & also a teacher, my mother raised the 3 of us but worked part-time in an office, so i suppose in the 60's onwards they were considered lower middle class.

I believe nowadays it's what the media like to label people(usually wrongly), as to what 'class' you are. Is there such a thing as working/middle class anymore?
Click to expand...
Blimey. 16 kids is the most I’ve ever heard of. Where the f did they all sleep?

Loadsamoney and buggerallmoney, ‘’And I’m that hard.’’
 
I would say working class is anyone who is hireable and fireable ,therefore needing a union to represent them. The best trade unions dress themselves up and pretend to not be such as doctors,estate agents,solicitors.
 
Starmer said ‘’Working people who get paid every month.’’ This is thought provoking as it doesn’t include self employed workers. It does however include pretty much his current whole voting base who work. Think about it. Public sector workers and lefty postgrads. Like I say, he’d have been better off just saying what taxes he’s going to increase and why, not tying himself in knots. Who are the people in these meetings when they agree this stuff? Students?
 
Rudi Hedman said:
Starmer said ‘’Working people who get paid every month.’’ This is thought provoking as it doesn’t include self employed workers. It does however include pretty much his current whole voting base who work. Think about it. Public sector workers and lefty postgrads. Like I say, he’d have been better off just saying what taxes he’s going to increase and why, not tying himself in knots. Who are the people in these meetings when they agree this stuff? Students?
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A small issue compared to Sunak leaving d- day commemerations early, the Truss budget which had us graded as a third world country,and Boris lying about everything and a criminal record to boot.Starmer in comparison is almost a saint.Still, he is here for at the very least five more years.
 
Football versus Rugby

Alroight ma'e vs Talks proper

Benidorm vs Tuscany

Work to live vs Live to Work

Plain speaking vs Politically correct

Buys expensive fashion, brands, & consumer goods vs Economical, thrifty & sensible shoes

she gives birth at age 19 vs At age 38

Loves taking drugs with buddies vs Only dabbles very occasionally, and keeps it a secret.

what others ?
 
Rudi Hedman said:
Blimey. 16 kids is the most I’ve ever heard of. Where the f did they all sleep?

Loadsamoney and buggerallmoney, ‘’And I’m that hard.’’
Click to expand...
16 kids is certainly a lot but the boxer Sonny Liston had 25 full and half siblings and he was the one they called Sonny. Imagine the size of the others.
Regarding working class - as an American judge once said in a different context, "I know it when I see it".
 
Starmer dug himself a hole with this description of working people. He used it endlessly during his election campaign in his misguided belief that he was working to support ordinary folk.

Fact is that most in this country work to earn a living, whether they earn hundreds of thousands a week (like footballers) or just a few quid. Even the Royal Family refer to their hard work and describe themselves as the Firm. Working people is fundamentally the wrong way to describe the folk he thought he would appeal to. I see he is now changing tack and trying to talk about strivers, in other words folk who strive to make ends meet.

Our PM has proved himself to be a hopeless politician as well as a liar, cheat and a scrounger.
 
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People who live off their assets and not work.

For example equalise capital gains tax with income tax would be more just, as an example.

😎 .
 
'the Working Classes'.............Starmer needs to be very careful.

He could alienate many neighbourhoods in Bradford, Burnley, Blackpool, Birmingham, and Luton. Even our own Thornton Heath. Neighbourhoods where Long-term unemployment has now become a way of life. Its not very Working Class when nobody seems to work at paying any income tax ?

www.express.co.uk

UK city with highest amount of jobless Brits on benefits - full list

The unemployment levels were calculated using the number of people claiming out-of-work Universal Credit benefits plus the number of people claiming Jobseeker's Allowance.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
 
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PalazioVecchio said:
'the Working Classes'.............Starmer needs to be very careful.

He could alienate many neighbourhoods in Bradford, Burnley, Blackpool, Birmingham, and Luton. Neighbourhoods where Long-term unemployment has now become a way of life. Its not very Working Class when nobody seems to work at paying any income tax ?

www.express.co.uk

UK city with highest amount of jobless Brits on benefits - full list

The unemployment levels were calculated using the number of people claiming out-of-work Universal Credit benefits plus the number of people claiming Jobseeker's Allowance.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
Click to expand...
I’d say they’re very much protected by Labour and as long as that’s the case, why would they care what Starmer says? That’s how they think and operate. Shameless until embarrassed in person.
 
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