War in Ukraine

[Stirlingsays]

'The prospect of providing security guarantees to Ukraine is real with the participation of Europe and other countries' - US President Trump.

Trump pulling out of Ukraine fiscally while placing both the cost (fecking insane) and the military responsibility for Ukraine onto Europe is the direction of travel here.

Politicians like Starmer and Macron are liable to get British troops killed over in Ukraine fighting a war that has zero upside for us.

But Starmer would certainly get brownie points with his preferred Davos and Brussels pals.

I cannot adequately express the disdain I have for our mainstream political class, left or right.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

It was remarkable how NATO collapsed when confronted with a crisis. Though not unexpected by many.
Now Europe is having to get used to sky high energy prices, and having the USA as its Dictator on Foreign Policy.
With China dominating world trade, small countries (like the UK) are at the bottom of the pecking order with regard to everything.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Meeting ends with Russia and the US quite happy but Ukraine and Europe quite unhappy.

My take on it is Trump looking to get out of the conflict while selling Europe arms to arm Ukraine, while it's probable that Russia privately agreed to limits on its expansion.

I can't see Zelensky agreeing to any of it as it's essentially signing his own death warrant.....He's be signing up to civil conflict post the end of the war with Russia holding onto its gains. He's kind of in an impossible situation....one of his own choosing, even if Biden and Johnson led him down that path.

There are logical outcomes and there is probably the path Ukraine/Europe will take which sees the war continuing without US funding (but selling arms) and the end deal worsening.....With a kind of Korean parallel end to the war.

We have wasted billions on this.....Our elites make bad decisions all the time and people just nod along to whatever the TV tells them.

Just as with WW2, the US comes out winning in all areas....selling us their energy, selling us arms with Europe in a mess.....All from neocon policy started from Bush's State department. Most people didn't even know where Ukraine was before this.

No one in Europe is strong enough to refuse to play along with the US's plans to weaken and set the continient against each other......The US always wants to keep Russia away from joining with Europe and instead relying upon the US.

Played again.

Keeping us down financially in comparison.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

'The prospect of providing security guarantees to Ukraine is real with the participation of Europe and other countries' - US President Trump.

Trump pulling out of Ukraine fiscally while placing both the cost (fecking insane) and the military responsibility for Ukraine onto Europe is the direction of travel here.

Politicians like Starmer and Macron are liable to get British troops killed over in Ukraine fighting a war that has zero upside for us.

But Starmer would certainly get brownie points with his preferred Davos and Brussels pals.

I cannot adequately express the disdain I have for our mainstream political class, left or right.

Some of us profoundly disagree agree with that assessment.

 

[Badger11]

Meeting ends with Russia and the US quite happy but Ukraine and Europe quite unhappy.

My take on it is Trump looking to get out of the conflict while selling Europe arms to arm Ukraine, while it's probable that Russia privately agreed to limits on its expansion.

I can't see Zelensky agreeing to any of it as it's essentially signing his own death warrant.....He's be signing up to civil conflict post the end of the war with Russia holding onto its gains. He's kind of in an impossible situation....one of his own choosing, even if Biden and Johnson led him down that path.

There are logical outcomes and there is probably the path Ukraine/Europe will take which sees the war continuing without US funding (but selling arms) and the end deal worsening.....With a kind of Korean parallel end to the war.

We have wasted billions on this.....Our elites make bad decisions all the time and people just nod along to whatever the TV tells them.

Just as with WW2, the US comes out winning in all areas....selling us their energy, selling us arms with Europe in a mess.....All from neocon policy started from Bush's State department. Most people didn't even know where Ukraine was before this.

No one in Europe is strong enough to refuse to play along with the US's plans to weaken and set the continient against each other......The US always wants to keep Russia away from joining with Europe and instead relying upon the US.

Played again.

Keeping us down financially in comparison.

I had a row with a senior civil servant a couple of weeks ago she shut me down and would not even listen to my point of view. She was towing the line Putin bad me must stop him. Yeah Putin is bad so my advise is don't get involved.

We know what's coming The EU will look to British forces to go into the Ukraine as a peacekeeping force whilst the Spanish / Irish / Italians and Germans etc. whistle and walk away. It will be France and the UK with the rest of them hiding.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I had a row with a senior civil servant a couple of weeks ago she shut me down and would not even listen to my point of view. She was towing the line Putin bad me must stop him. Yeah Putin is bad so my advise is don't get involved.

We know what's coming The EU will look to British forces to go into the Ukraine as a peacekeeping force whilst the Spanish / Irish / Italians and Germans etc. whistle and walk away. It will be France and the UK with the rest of them hiding.

She's part of the 'we worsen stuff while picking up wages' service.

Many such cases.

 

[Badger11]

She's part of the 'we worsen stuff while picking up wages' service.

Many such cases.

She isn't my idea of a civil servant e.g. calm, level headed and not making highly politicised statements. She was loud mouthed and disparaging of anyone not towing the elite line.

I can't respect people like that and they are not suitable for the Civil Service (neither am I, too opinionated).

 

[Stirlingsays]

She isn't my idea of a civil servant e.g. calm, level headed and not making highly politicised statements. She was loud mouthed and disparaging of anyone not towing the elite line.

I can't respect people like that and they are not suitable for the Civil Service (neither am I, too opinionated).

It reminds me of a couple years ago when the Police were called to a neighbour's house as the guy there had got drunk and had started shouting and pushing people around....it's a long story and they thankfully moved.

Anyway the point was that two Police turned up and the guy was taken off to the cells for the night. Then after we had one chap and one woman Police team turn up asking to get some details from neighbours.....Anyway during this the Police woman made derogatory and judgmental comments about this guy....which while true, struck me as unprofessional and inappropriate and I had to bite my lip and stop myself from saying so. The Policeman with her looked a little wry about it all and seemed far more sensible.

A decline in standards....Probably because the kind of people encouraged to join the Police today are....not always the most reserved and stoic types.

 

[Badger11]

It reminds me of a couple years ago when the Police were called to a neighbour's house as the guy there had got drunk and had started shouting and pushing people around....it's a long story and they thankfully moved.

Anyway the point was that two Police turned up and the guy was taken off to the cells for the night. Then after we had one chap and one woman Police team turn up asking to get some details from neighbours.....Anyway during this the Police woman made derogatory and judgmental comments about this guy....which while true, struck me as unprofessional and inappropriate and I had to bite my lip and stop myself from saying so. The Policeman with her looked a little wry about it all and seemed far more sensible.

A decline in standards....Probably because the kind of people encouraged to join the Police today are....not always the most reserved and stoic types.

I'm not surprised Police told to take the knee and go to Gay Pride parades wear badges supporting various groups etc. None of that happened in the old day you respected them because they appeared to be impartial.

Today half of them seem to be on social media pushing themselves forward. I just don't get it, so unprofessional.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Standards have dropped everywhere. From the elites, down to standards for recruiting nurses, police and teachers. All standards dropped to increase numbers into the professions.

The war in Ukraine has seen the emergence of three big economies. I wonder if Ukraine will set a precedent for the other two big boys to swallow up their neighbours.
The USA can own Greenland and Europe
China can start with Taiwan and others around the Pacific.
Russia can claw back its satellite states and revert to the USSR boundaries

I am pretty sure we are at/extremely close to Peak oil production. When oil gets scarce and other natural resources, I think we might see some political boundaries shifting again as the three big economies compete for remaining resources, and absorb their neighbours

 

[Badger11]

Standards have dropped everywhere. From the elites, down to standards for recruiting nurses, police and teachers. All standards dropped to increase numbers into the professions.

The war in Ukraine has seen the emergence of three big economies. I wonder if Ukraine will set a precedent for the other two big boys to swallow up their neighbours.
The USA can own Greenland and Europe
China can start with Taiwan and others around the Pacific.
Russia can claw back its satellite states and revert to the USSR boundaries

I am pretty sure we are at/extremely close to Peak oil production. When oil gets scarce and other natural resources, I think we might see some political boundaries shifting again as the three big economies compete for remaining resources, and absorb their neighbours

Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia

 

[Stirlingsays]

'Putin proposed to freeze the front in the Zaporozhye and Kherson in exchange for a Ukrainian withdrawal from Donetsk and Lugansk.' - Axios.

'European officials and Trump discussed possible 'Article 5 style' security guarantees for Ukraine outside NATO as part of a potential peace deal.' - CNN.

The Americans provoke this mess (admittedly started with Bush) and the Europeans (who have been fools) are left holding the baby.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

'Putin proposed to freeze the front in the Zaporozhye and Kherson in exchange for a Ukrainian withdrawal from Donetsk and Lugansk.' - Axios.

'European officials and Trump discussed possible 'Article 5 style' security guarantees for Ukraine outside NATO as part of a potential peace deal.' - CNN.

The Americans provoke this mess (admittedly started with Bush) and the Europeans (who have been fools) are left holding the baby.

I agree, apart from your summary.
I would describe Europe as 'collateral damage', as opposed to holding the baby. Europe are very much the expendables, alongside letting in uncontrolled numbers of migrants

 

[Spindle]

I'm not surprised Police told to take the knee and go to Gay Pride parades wear badges supporting various groups etc. None of that happened in the old day you respected them because they appeared to be impartial.

Today half of them seem to be on social media pushing themselves forward. I just don't get it, so unprofessional.

The application literally asks if you are a member or have been of NF or Britain First. Doesn't mention other extreme groups, just those.