War in Ukraine

[Stirlingsays]

I've been in many a trench myself, have you. I did my bit in the Army, signed up at 16 in 1964 in the 1st Battalion Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment, so you are barking up the wrong tree. And, I was addressing the point by posting that Putin is a hypocrite.

No I haven't....I respect your service but I'm not sure how it means I'm barking up the wrong tree.

We are talking about what's best for the country, not whether Putin is hypocritical or not.

I've already laid out how what Russia have done is no different to what the US have done anyway.

This is another neocon war.....How about you give me a war that actually helps the country instead of wasting billions on wars for other countries.....and that ultimately only enriches the Yanks.

When they cut your pension...which I take no pleasure in saying but we all know it's coming.... I hope you remember all the billions that were thrown away on this nonsense....and on covid.

 

[johnny the eagle]

No I haven't....I respect your service but I'm not sure how it means I'm barking up the wrong tree.

We are talking about what's best for the country, not whether Putin is hypocritical or not.

I've already laid out how what Russia have done is no different to what the US have done anyway.

This is another neocon war.....How about you give me a war that actually helps the country instead of wasting billions on wars for other countries.....and that ultimately only enriches the Yanks.

Read my first post, what I said in that post is that Putin is a hypocrite. I didn't say anything about anything else, did I, no. What's my pension got to do with it? Nothing. Why would I want to give you a war?

 

[Spindle]

Ridiculous. None of them were ever ruled by Putin. That ship sailed in 1990.

NATO could always stick to their promise. NATO doesn't have to accept new members.
The Warsaw Pact disbanded on the basis of a NATO promise not to expand eastwards, see how that turned out.

Tell that to the Georgians and Chechyns

 

[Stirlingsays]

Read my first post, what I said in that post is that Putin is a hypocrite. I didn't say anything about anything else, did I, no.

Putin is doing what he thinks is best for Russia.....When I was a lad, Russia had half of Berlin and Germany.....I was happy just for see the end of the Cold War and the end of the threat of nuclear war.

Now I have that back on the plate for my children to grow up with.....What the feck are we doing in Ukraine? None of our business.

Starmer does what he thinks is best for Europe......He wants to be back in the EU....He prefers a European superstate.

I want a leader that does what he thinks is best for Britain.

Sod slavic wars....Nothing to do with me.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Tell that to the Georgians and Chechyns

Since when did we give a feck what Georgians and Chechyns think?

A good number of whom are fighting in Russia's army by the way as both regions have ethnic Russian populations in them....as does Ukraine.

This isn't France, Germany or Scandinavian....countries that we have roots with....These are Slavs. None of them would come over here and fight our wars.

 

[johnny the eagle]

Putin is doing what he thinks is best for Russia.....When I was a lad, Russia had half of Berlin and Germany.....I was happy just for see the end of the Cold War and the end of the threat of nuclear war.

Now I have that back on the plate for my children to grow up with.....What the feck are we doing in Ukraine? None of our business.

Starmer does what he thinks is best for Europe......He wants to be back in the EU....He prefers a European superstate.

I want a leader that does what he thinks is best for Britain.

Sod slavic wars....Nothing to do with me.

Listen, the first post I put up was in reply to a post about Russian expansion and NATO. I said what I wanted to say on it, I voiced my own opinion, that's good enough for me. I didn't want to talk about any other wars, the price of bread, my pension, my cat's mother's uncle or anything else, job done.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Listen, the first post I put up was in reply to a post about Russian expansion and NATO. I said what I wanted to say on it, I voiced my own opinion, that's good enough for me. I didn't want to talk about any other wars, the price of bread, my pension, my cat's mother's uncle or anything else, job done.

Fair enough.

It's not a personal attack.

I'm venting my frustration over the whole bloody thing.

 

[johnny the eagle]

Fair enough.

It's not a personal attack.

I'm venting my frustration over the whole bloody thing.

It ain`t my problem.

 

[McAhuna]

Tell that to the Georgians and Chechyns

Well Chechnya was and is part of Russia. The war, was at least partly driven by Islamic extremism from the Chechens. But, hey ...lets all blame the Russians anyway.
As in Syria, Libya and Rotherham the Western establishment can be relied upon to back the Jihadists when it comes to the crunch.
They'll back anything from Jihadists to Nazis if it helps the military-industrial complex geo-political goals.
In 1999, Chechen-based Islamic fundamentalists launched an incursion into the neighboring Russian republic of Dagestan with the goal of establishing an Islamic state, which directly triggered the start of the Second Chechen War.

Georgia has a lot of parallels with Ukraine. It was the Georgians who started it by launching a large-scale military operation into the Russian region of South Ossetia.
They were emboldened to attack by burgeoning ties with, and encouragement from, NATO and the EU. Sound familiar?

 

[McAhuna]

The point of my post, as I posted to someone else, is that Putin is a hypocrite, read that post.

No.
The point of your post was it was fine for Ukrainians to shell people, because the victims were in Ukrainian territory at the time.

You read your own post again.

 

[McAhuna]

Yeah, Ukraine was shelling its own territory, it was in Ukraine.

A reminder for the forgetful

 

[johnny the eagle]

No.
The point of your post was it was fine for Ukrainians to shell people, because the victims were in Ukrainian territory at the time.

You read your own post again.

Don't try to put words in my mouth, moosh. Read the 11th post down on page 92 at I think it was posted at 12.27. So, bloody what the Ukrainians were shelling, an area of Ukraine, whoopee doo. You put the part up about shelling, don't try and twist things to suit your own agenda, it won't work. You knew exactly what I was posting about.

 

[johnny the eagle]

A reminder for the forgetful

Well spotted.

 

[McAhuna]

Don't try to put words in my mouth, moosh. Read the 11th post down on page 92 at I think it was posted at 12.27. So, bloody what the Ukrainians were shelling, an area of Ukraine, whoopee doo. You put the part up about shelling, don't try and twist things to suit your own agenda, it won't work. You knew exactly what I was posting about.

Not twisting anything mate.

You said it was fine for the Ukrainians to shell people in their own territory.
Now you've said it again.

So we're all clear and understood.

 

[johnny the eagle]

Not twisting anything mate.

You said it was fine for the Ukrainians to shell people in their own territory.
Now you've said it again.

So we're all clear and understood.

Yeah, on page 92 at 1.06, have another read where did I put in that post that they were shelling people, that's right, nowhere. Go have another read. Nowhere in that post did I mention " PEOPLE " Shelling and Ukraine and territory, yeah, I posted that, don't try and put words in my mouth, moosh it ain`t working for you.

 

[McAhuna]

Yeah, on page 92 at 1.06, have another read where did I put in that post that they were shelling people, that's right, nowhere. Go have another read. Nowhere in that post did I mention " PEOPLE " Shelling and Ukraine and territory, yeah, I posted that, don't try and put words in my mouth, moosh it ain`t working for you.

What do you think they were shelling?

Did they just not like the design of the residential apartment blocks they were targeting?

 

[Stirlingsays]

The East of Ukraine has a heavy ethnically Russian speaking population, it mostly voted for the government that was overthrown in 2014. Ukrainian units in the east literally rebelled against the coup.

That's something the west, who backed and celebrated the coup that they paid for rarely if ever mention.

These were Ukrainian units in the east who rebelled, not Russian units and yes, Russia backed them once the tide turned against them, but the reality is that a civil war started because we were meddling where we don't belong.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Lets hope that The Age of Disclosure is true.

 

[silvertop]

Apparently, NATO isn't interested in territorial expansion, only in defending itself.
Do people say this with a straight face? Is the power of BBC brainwashing that strong?

View attachment 2421

The newbies all clamored to join NATO given the threat of the Bear and their collective experience under its control.

Is saying "yes" to eager applicants who required little or no persuasion the same as expansionism?

 

[Stirlingsays]

The newbies all clamored to join NATO given the threat of the Bear and their collective experience under its control.

Is saying "yes" to eager applicants who required little or no persuasion the same as expansionism?

This argument was predicted by analysts critical of the expansion east decades ago.

'George F. Kennan was the analyst who, decades ago, warned that NATO's eastward expansion would provoke a hostile Russian reaction—and that Western leaders would then point to that reaction as proof of inherent Russian aggression to justify the policy.

In a 1998 New York Times interview, shortly after the U.S. Senate ratified the first wave of NATO enlargement (adding Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic), Kennan—a key architect of the U.S. Cold War containment strategy against the Soviet Union—called the move "the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post–Cold War era." He explained: "Of course, there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are—but this is just wrong."

He predicted it would inflame Russian nationalism, empower hardliners, and restart Cold War tensions, while dismissing the idea that Russia's response would validate the expansion.Kennan's warnings came in 1997–1998, over 25 years before Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine, which many now see as fulfilling his prophecy.

He argued the policy ignored Russia's security concerns and historical sensitivities, creating a self-fulfilling cycle of confrontation. Other experts like John Mearsheimer and Ted Galen Carpenter echoed similar views, but Kennan's statement most directly matches the "look, we were right" dynamic you described.'