VAR bear with me

Poshgit

Member
Country
England
Do you agree that VAR was a good idea in principle
Big But , it’s too slow , spoils tempo of game
Different staff each game so decisions seem to vary game to game
All fans seem to think and maybe justifiably that decisions favour the big teams
Supposing the human element was replaced with Ai ? It could learn from all the existing footage of games , a panel could decide the parameters of trickier decisions and it would be a lot quicker ,not capable of favourtism
Might also call out the epidemic of Diving
I ‘ll get my coat ….
 
Personally I think its bigger than VAR.

Var of course has LOTs of issues, but its also severely hampered by the laws around what it can get involved with, and what it can change.

The biggest issue with me is just highlighted by VAR, its a complete inability to apply any common sense and consistency. In one game a pen will be given for next to nothing, and in the next game (for example) Rice can have 2 arms wrapped round an attacked AND handball it and get away with it.

It blows my mind now obvious some of this stuff is.

EVERY weekend there are a handfull of completely ludicrous decisions that VAR look at and somehow miss
 
Personally I think its bigger than VAR.

Var of course has LOTs of issues, but its also severely hampered by the laws around what it can get involved with, and what it can change.

The biggest issue with me is just highlighted by VAR, its a complete inability to apply any common sense and consistency. In one game a pen will be given for next to nothing, and in the next game (for example) Rice can have 2 arms wrapped round an attacked AND handball it and get away with it.

It blows my mind now obvious some of this stuff is.

EVERY weekend there are a handfull of completely ludicrous decisions that VAR look at and somehow miss
I'd say it is even more fundamental than these issues (although I agree and all good points).

There was and is an arrogance around football in terms of not learning from other sports.

Cricket, Tennis and Rugby to name just three sports brought in tech assistance way before football did. Taking cricket as an example, they understood early on that some things (eg lbw, did the slip fielder catch the ball cleanly, was a batsman's back foot in the air or not for a stumping) were very hard to get clarity on even with tech. So they restricted it early on to just line calls ie no balls, run outs and did the ball cross the boundary.

Had football done the same eg "did the ball cross the line" and actually set up the tech to cover all the lines on the pitch then that would have been an improvement. More nuanced aspects like offside, clear and obvious errors around denial of goalscoring opportunity etc could have been worked out or binned over time.

As others have said, I think there is too much money in the game for this to be accidental and the more top flight football I see the more I think there has to be some sort of deep rooted corruption in the game.
 
VAR is only a part of what's wrong with the Premier League.

The Laws of the game are also a contributor. Handball and offside laws have been changed to the point that I wonder if the reasons behind that is to justify the existence of VAR !

But back to VAR. My prediction when it was implemented was that already barely competent matchday officials would just be given another channel to demonstrate their incompetence. And I believe that to be the case.

And in pre VAR days the old cliche was that good and bad refereeing decisions even themselves out over the course of a season. Now we're saying the same thing about VAR.

As I posted on the Utd-Palace thread, Chris Kavanagh is a classic example of refereeing on auto pilot, safe, he assumes, in the knowledge that if/when he gets something wrong he will be rescued by his mates at Stockley Park. That's unacceptable.

Once again I spent my Saturday watching L2 football at Bromley. And once again I came away thinking how much more I enjoy that than Premier League football.
 
What hasn't been mentioned is the level of cheating, it's rife, and the way I see it, is a reflection of the sport itself. VAR is just another layer, a tool to be used by corrupt officials to fit the narrative.
The public gets what it deserves, perhaps there's a wish for some drama to liven up what can be a very dull sport - it's like a circus, the ringmaster, the acrobats, the clowns....
 
Last edited:
The principle of it horrified me when they brought it in and its worse now we have had it for a few years .As it takes over more it gets worse , from correcting clear and obvious errors (was it ever that in reality?) it's now human error on steroids .

Goal line tech was fine as it clarified the most important aspect of the game of the ball being over the line , everything else is subjective . Even the tight offside calls are in the opinion of VAR of when the ball is actually played, they even had to make the lines they draw thicker to make it easier for themselves which gives a margin of error that any decent linesman would have had covered back in the day .

Football is a simple game that survived for over a 100 years with a referee and two linesman .They didn't always get it right (but neither does VAR) but the game flowed and for the most of it the officials were part time and for the most of it they did get it right .

We had a beautiful game and we gave it away to a monster

Like Neilo above watching lower league football (my local team is tier 7) is far more enjoyable than the Premier league product and that cant be right . The elite level of the game we love should be what we all want to embrace not just put up with . It really has got to the point for me where being in the Championship IS the elite level of the game as the step above it is one I no longer recognise .
 
I'd say it is even more fundamental than these issues (although I agree and all good points).

There was and is an arrogance around football in terms of not learning from other sports.

Cricket, Tennis and Rugby to name just three sports brought in tech assistance way before football did. Taking cricket as an example, they understood early on that some things (eg lbw, did the slip fielder catch the ball cleanly, was a batsman's back foot in the air or not for a stumping) were very hard to get clarity on even with tech. So they restricted it early on to just line calls ie no balls, run outs and did the ball cross the boundary.

Had football done the same eg "did the ball cross the line" and actually set up the tech to cover all the lines on the pitch then that would have been an improvement. More nuanced aspects like offside, clear and obvious errors around denial of goalscoring opportunity etc could have been worked out or binned over time.

As others have said, I think there is too much money in the game for this to be accidental and the more top flight football I see the more I think there has to be some sort of deep rooted corruption in the game.
Yes, you're right. VAR was originally sold to the public as a way of ensuring correct decisions were made - not as a tool to forensically investigate every phase of the build up to legitimate goals. Before it's introduction a linesman couldn't give a shoulder or head being offside because it was impossible to know at the same time as running full pelt and checking when the ball was played. Ironically interpretation still plays a big part in decisions - how anyone could look at the Declan Rice grappling/handball at the weekend and decide it was fine is beyond logic and one VAR official decides Guehi's contact on Salah was "fleeting" and so allowed while another thinks La Croix's was sustained and worthy of a penalty and a red.
Also what's happened to the mystical 5 cm tolerance for offsides which was given to Liverpool and has never been mentioned since?
 
Before VAR's introduction everybody was screaming out for it. Now we've got it, somebody needs to come up with a clear plan in how to use it properly. As already mentioned Chris Kavanaugh, and a few others use it as a safety net. Take it away and you get to see what he's capable of such as the Villa v Newcastle FA Cup game.

What needs to be examined a lot more closely is the cheating and gamesmanship that goes on. I'd love to see a panel look at every single EPL game and issue one match suspensions to players that are deliberately trying to get one over the officials. I am sick and tired of players pretending to they've got a head injury to stop a team that are in possesion going forward. Give Harry Maguire a one match suspension for pretending he'd got kicked in the head when he was nowhere near him. Eventually this behavious will stop.

There's too many weak referee's, and the players know who they are. On Sunday the ref was surrounded by Utd players trying to influence him not to overturn his decision. Once again Maguire in the thick of it, and he would have had to run from the halfway line to join in. All just to get Max a red card.

If we can minimise the cheating the officials can make better decions based on what they see at the time, and rely less on VAR.
 
VAR could be a useful tool to assist referees in applying the rules of the game to ensure fair play. Unfortunately for a variety of reasons it’s doing the opposite. In relation to offside decisions the problem is the rule which leads to good goals being ruled out because at a particular point in time, that point having a degree of subjectivity, a player’s big toe is in the wrong position leading to an offside decision. The solution to that one is to change the rule to one which is less rigid in terms of drawing lines. Tricky but not impossible.

In terms of the more difficult decisions referees have to make around red cards and penalties VAR has encouraged lazy refereeing on the pitch and remote refereeing by VAR. That was never the intention and indeed PGMOL has stated that VAR should not re-referee games. Yet at the weekend VAR looked at the Lacroix incident to confirm that the foul continued into the box and therefore a penalty was the correct decision. Whether you agree with that or not, it was an appropriate use of VAR. However, having done so rather than confirming that the referee’s decision was correct therefore play on they decided to look at his decision to book the player. The notion that looking at 3 cameras with slow motion is more accurate in making a decision around DOGSO (or whatever the acronym is) than a referee close to the game in real time is ridiculous. The answer here is about training of officials regarding their roles and clarification of those roles. The referee is in charge. In that instance he should have asked VAR to confirm that the foul was in the box rather than VAR making the decision to intervene.

I am torn on the issue of red cards in that no one wants to see players tackling high with studs showing so when refs give a yellow and VAR suggest a red this seems reasonable on the face of it. However, again slow-mo can make things look worse. Given these decisions are subjective regardless of whether it’s the referee or VAR I’d be inclined to say VAR should not get involved with whether a card should be yellow or red.

Where I do think VAR could usefully be used to assist with cards is twofold. If a referee misses a serious incident such as an off the ball assault VAR could highlight this, although one has to wonder why none of the other three officials missed it. The second use should be for simulation. This has become rife in the game and is even justified by commentators and pundits as being necessary to “give the referee a decision to make”. Cunha should possibly have received a yellow for diving in the box, but McGuire should definitely have received one for feigning a head injury. The ref couldn’t see there was no contact and perhaps JSL’s high boot was enough but technology here was helpful in clarifying what actually happened.

None of these changes are difficult to make and if those who run the game genuinely want to ensure fair play they could turn VAR into a useful tool to enhance the game rather than spoil it.
 
Before VAR's introduction everybody was screaming out for it. Now we've got it, somebody needs to come up with a clear plan in how to use it properly. As already mentioned Chris Kavanaugh, and a few others use it as a safety net. Take it away and you get to see what he's capable of such as the Villa v Newcastle FA Cup game.

I disagree strongly with that statement.

I wasn’t screaming out for it and never wanted it, along with hundreds of thousands of others I would suggest!
 
What hasn't been mentioned is the level of cheating, it's rife, and the way I see it, is a reflection of the sport itself. VAR is just another layer, a tool to be used by corrupt officials to fit the narrative.
The public gets what it deserves, perhaps there's a wish for some drama to liven up what can be a very dull sport - it's like a circus, the ringmaster, the acrobats, the clowns....
Could not agree more. It's endemic. Look at Maguire has our player in a bear hug and then feigns injury suggesting a kick to the face when the boot was a foot away and he got the decision!

One quality that's completely extinct in the PL is integrity. Cheating should be a red card offence. Would be in any other sport.
 
Could not agree more. It's endemic. Look at Maguire has our player in a bear hug and the feigns injury
suggesting a kick to the face when the boot was a foot away and he got the decision!
One quality that's completely extinct in the PL is integrity. Cheating should be a red card offence. Would be in any other sport.
Footballers are so engrained in "trying to get an edge" that they don't see it as cheating. Even a free kick in their own half has to see the ball moved forward by an inch or two. Throw ins can't be taken from the right place, for a corner the ball must be outside the line, injuries are exaggerated, etc.
The pundits don't help with their drivel about "felt a touch" and "entitled to go down". The most they'll ever say is that a player might have made the most of a situation without ever saying it was a blatant dive.
Personally I'd book anyone who, when fouled, rolls over a few times. Yes, Cucarella, you especially you hairy fraud.
 
When it comes to (lack of) consultation with supporters, we tend to focus on things like kick off times, long away trips over Xmas, ticket prices etc. It is also important to note, however, that the way the game is actually played has been messed about with in increasingly significant ways with no mandate from supporters at all. The implementation of VAR is like the new handball rules, or the clampdown on 'excessive' force in tackling, or many other things that make the game unrecognisable from previous decades - it was a big change to the game itself that was foisted onto supporters without their consent or blessing.

I think VAR was seen as increasingly inevitable once TV coverage started to analyse decisions in-play, and especially once smartphones made transmission of footage near-instantaneous. It was felt that without VAR we would return to a situation where, for instance, a player scores by foul play and everyone in the ground soon knows the exact truth of it apart from the one person who counts. I can see how that becomes very difficult, especially as the game then continues on with everyone knowing, and the ref knowing that everyone knows something he doesn't. For that reason I doubt we will ever get shot of VAR completely.

However, even the most ardent supporters of VAR must surely by now see that it causes as much upset as it solves. What VAR punishes in one game it ignores in another because, in forensically examining key decisions, all we establish is that they remain subjective. If we had sacrificed the flow, speed, and emotional nature of the game but had at least got universally accepted decision-making in return then perhaps it might be worth it (though I'm not at all sure of that). As it is, we are still arguing over decisions and inconsistency, so the terrible intrusion of VAR on the spirit of the game is impossible to justify. It simply must change, and significantly so.

The current solution to this seems to be to push VAR deeper and deeper into the game, making it all-invasive. Corners will soon be checked, for fecks sake. The current fuss is over grappling at set plays, so that will be where VAR goes next, but there can be three or four scuffles at a corner, each playing out over ten or so seconds before and as the ball is delivered. Will we then have to assess each interaction between players afterwards? For each corner? That would take an age, but if not, how will we ensure no breach of the rules has been missed? That is the logical next phase of the mindset that says 'Technically correct decisions are all that matter, whatever the cost', and that is the mindset of the lawmakers at present.

Then there is all the carry-on that VAR encourages. Modern players are shameless cheats. Once, we used to adopt the moral high ground on the issue of on-field conduct, but English players have been the worst divers around for ages now and our league, once prized for its competitive, hard-but-fair spirit, is no different to any other now. The media never call it out as they are too scared to damage the product. The industry is so financially erratic and dog eat dog that it cannot police itself morally - no player will be criticised by his own club for diving, even in private, if they think it might work. They fall over at the slightest touch, scream out, contort their faces in agony, again and again and again. All without even passing comment, let alone criticism. Add in VAR, which is obsessed with looking at everything in slow motion to find the smallest contact and, partly to justify itself, sees every contact as a free kick. Why wouldn't a player go over all the time? Nothing to lose, all to gain. VAR is a big part of the awful sporting culture we now have.

I would solve it like this:

1. VAR to be used to check goals (including offsides), serious and dangerous foul play, and possible penalty kicks. Nothing else, ever.

2. When one of the above happens, VAR has ten seconds. If it can't see a breach of the rules in that time then it isn't clear and obvious and is within the same reasonable tolerance the game operated under for over a century. You can spot the Thierry Henry handball in that time, but not a toenail offside. Perfect.

3. No slow motion or lines on the screen allowed. If you can't see it in real time then, again, it can't be clear and obvious. Plus, assessing the extent and effect of some miniscule contact in slow-motion is misleading, when in real time you can see very clearly that the player has thrown himself to the ground. A basic sense of the rules of physics is a huge part of immediately recognising if something is a foul/dive or not. Don't use VAR to create an artificial world where you can't rely on that basic sense.

4. All managers and clubs to be informed, and a permanent public statement to be made, that there will always be disagreement over decisions and some mistakes, but that IS PART OF FOOTBALL. Suck it up you f***ing babies and get on with it should be the message, not pandering to nonsense moaning. VAR should exist as a rarely-used backstop to prevent obvious and significant errors, not to kill the game itself. If it was seen that way then a lot of the problems would be solved overnight.
 
I disagree strongly with that statement.

I wasn’t screaming out for it and never wanted it, along with hundreds of thousands of others I would suggest!
When I say everydody I'm really referring to players/managers/media who jump on as soon as there's an error by officials that could have been prevented by VAR. Then we get it and don't know how to use it.

We are the only sport that has introduced technology but have failed to improve on the mistakes. Some of that is down to the inept officiating, some of it is down to players who are out there to con the referee. Whether it's a dive to gain a penalty or freekick, which may result in a card - or somebody feigning injury to either get a the game stopped.

As soon as there is a directive for referee's to stop the game for a head injury there will be clubs working overtime in how to take advantage of that.

VAR has got itself in a right muddle with offsides. I have been saying for years that we need to go back to linesmen actually doing their jobs. Any tight decisions go with what was decided on field, and only overturned when there's daylight between the players involved. Burnley's disallowed goal for offside was ridiculous on Saturday. How can somebody's arm be offside when the defenders foot is closer to the goal ? Are we saying that Chris Richards might be deemed to be in an offside position just because of his choice of haircut ?

Punish the players that are deliberately cheating, stop surrounding the refs trying to intimifate and influence their decision. It doesn't happen in rugby or cricket. Stop managers from being allowed on the pitch after the game, and stop the Arteta's of this world from prowling the touchline constantly in the 4th Official's ear. He knows what he's doing and it's changing the landscape of football.
 
The principle of it horrified me when they brought it in and its worse now we have had it for a few years .As it takes over more it gets worse , from correcting clear and obvious errors (was it ever that in reality?) it's now human error on steroids .

Goal line tech was fine as it clarified the most important aspect of the game of the ball being over the line , everything else is subjective . Even the tight offside calls are in the opinion of VAR of when the ball is actually played, they even had to make the lines they draw thicker to make it easier for themselves which gives a margin of error that any decent linesman would have had covered back in the day .

Football is a simple game that survived for over a 100 years with a referee and two linesman .They didn't always get it right (but neither does VAR) but the game flowed and for the most of it the officials were part time and for the most of it they did get it right .

We had a beautiful game and we gave it away to a monster

Like Neilo above watching lower league football (my local team is tier 7) is far more enjoyable than the Premier league product and that cant be right . The elite level of the game we love should be what we all want to embrace not just put up with . It really has got to the point for me where being in the Championship IS the elite level of the game as the step above it is one I no longer recognise .
Non league football is well worth checking out. My local club do a deal for £30 for which you get the game, 8 cans of beer and a hamburger & chips. 25 blokes from the pub go two or three times a season (can't go more because most of them have season tickets at different clubs) and it's a great day out and all back to the pub afterwards.
The football might not be top quality but frankly nor are league games most of the time.
 
Fairly simple to me. Var is being used as a tool for Precision in an environment where 1) it is wholly incapable of such precision, and 2) and in many cases, such precision is not even needed.

Take offside. Who cares if the attackers shoulder is offside, how much of an advantage do you think that is?
If it were me, i'd be placing a gps tracker in the Sports Bra's that they all wear anyway, make it a standard regulated bit of kit, then get gps software to tell me if the player is offside or not, I'd also give it a decent buffer of say 1metre. that should satisfy Wengers 'clear daylight' sh*t too. Effectevely gets rid of Offside. But that 1m could be Set less if you wanted. point is it shouldn't be less than 20cms. There's no advantage to someone being 20 cm offside.

Stop using slow motion replays. Only distorts what the ref is looking at. The only reason to use a slow motion replay is to get to the exact frame to decide if a player/ball has crossed into or out of an area of play, including the 18 yard box.
Handball decisions will be fairer, and intent is shown clearer in real time.

covers most of my gripes with VAR. only then need to deal with the 'affecting play' rule.
 
Fairly simple to me. Var is being used as a tool for Precision in an environment where 1) it is wholly incapable of such precision, and 2) and in many cases, such precision is not even needed.

Take offside. Who cares if the attackers shoulder is offside, how much of an advantage do you think that is?
If it were me, i'd be placing a gps tracker in the Sports Bra's that they all wear anyway, make it a standard regulated bit of kit, then get gps software to tell me if the player is offside or not, I'd also give it a decent buffer of say 1metre. that should satisfy Wengers 'clear daylight' sh*t too. Effectevely gets rid of Offside. But that 1m could be Set less if you wanted. point is it shouldn't be less than 20cms. There's no advantage to someone being 20 cm offside.

Stop using slow motion replays. Only distorts what the ref is looking at. The only reason to use a slow motion replay is to get to the exact frame to decide if a player/ball has crossed into or out of an area of play, including the 18 yard box.
Handball decisions will be fairer, and intent is shown clearer in real time.

covers most of my gripes with VAR. only then need to deal with the 'affecting play' rule.
Or just get rid of the offside rule. Teams take a chance whether to keep players back to defend or leave them free to attack; rather like when a goalkeeper goes up the other end for a last minute corner. The game would find its own balance.
 

Holmesdale Online Shop

Back
Top