Two tiers final U turn....

georgenorman said:
I don't see how PR would change things much apart from allowing more extremists seats in parliament and endless coalitions governing weakly.
I'm happy to answer any questions within reason - where haven't I?
I note that you haven't answered the Norway question. You have made a number of posts about the issue of climate change so I presume you are against us developing our North Sea oil resources, yet you quote Norway's exploitation of their oil resources as a great benefit to ordinary people.
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You don't seem to think anything is possible beyond a government which siphons off as much to the rich as they can get away with - your mindset speaks exactly to the problem. 'How could we possibly hope for any better!?'

I didn't answer the Norway question because it's silly and childishly loaded - no, I don't think just copying and pasting policies that have been successful elsewhere is the right approach. You asked for recent examples of policies which improved living standards, so I shared them.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
You don't seem to think anything is possible beyond a government which siphons off as much to the rich as they can get away with - your mindset speaks exactly to the problem. 'How could we possibly hope for any better!?'

I didn't answer the Norway question because it's silly and childishly loaded - no, I don't think just copying and pasting policies that have been successful elsewhere is the right approach. You asked for recent examples of policies which improved living standards, so I shared them.
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Most governments siphon off money from everyone (apart from layabouts) and proceed to p it up the wall in absurd projects like HS2, largess to 'charities' like degenerate Stonewall, and general incompetence and wasteful spending.
The rich contribute the lions share of tax. The Left think that if you simply take more and more of their (and our) money everything will be great.
You quoted Norway's policy of exploiting it's oil resources as a great benefit to Norwegian people yet you are dead set against the UK doing similar - classic Left double-think.
 
georgenorman said:
Most governments siphon off money from everyone (apart from layabouts) and proceed to p it up the wall in absurd projects like HS2, largess to 'charities' like degenerate Stonewall, and general incompetence and wasteful spending.
The rich contribute the lions share of tax. The Left think that if you simply take more and more of their (and our) money everything will be great.
You quoted Norway's policy of exploiting it's oil resources as a great benefit to Norwegian people yet you are dead set against the UK doing similar - classic Left double-think.
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Sigh.

I've just given you a range of examples of successful government policies that didn't piss anything up the wall - your argument seems to be 'no we can't possibly have a better government because look how bad our current government is' - doesn't make a shred of sense.

Define 'the rich' in your claim.

I don't think anyone on the left thinks that 'if you simply take more and more of their money everything will be great.' - that sounds like some sort of primary school analysis.

ChatGPT produced a list of examples, of which Norway was one of many - you've latched onto looking for some sort of 'gotcha' like a budget Piers Morgan, despite it being completely irrelevant to the point being made; that governments can and do make decisions and policy changes to the betterment of their populations.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Sigh.

I've just given you a range of examples of successful government policies that didn't piss anything up the wall - your argument seems to be 'no we can't possibly have a better government because look how bad our current government is' - doesn't make a shred of sense.

Define 'the rich' in your claim.

I don't think anyone on the left thinks that 'if you simply take more and more of their money everything will be great.' - that sounds like some sort of primary school analysis.

ChatGPT produced a list of examples, of which Norway was one of many - you've latched onto looking for some sort of 'gotcha' like a budget Piers Morgan, despite it being completely irrelevant to the point being made; that governments can and do make decisions and policy changes to the betterment of their populations.
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Do you think the HS2 is a roaring success then - enriching our lives?
We would be better off if government restricted themselves to essentials and kept out of our lives as much as possible. We are far better in spending our own money in our own interests and running our own lives than governments are.
The top 1% of income-tax payers contribute over 28% of income-tax.
I would have thought that you would consider that the damage to the lives of Norwegian people allegedly cause by climate change would outweigh any benefit they get from Norway's oil policies?
Why do you rely on ChatGPT so much, many of its answers are rigged and biased.
 
georgenorman said:
Do you think the HS2 is a roaring success then - enriching our lives?
We would be better off if government restricted themselves to essentials and kept out of our lives as much as possible. We are far better in spending our own money in our own interests and running our own lives than governments are.
The top 1% of income-tax payers contribute over 28% of income-tax.
I would have thought that you would consider that the damage to the lives of Norwegian people allegedly cause by climate change would outweigh any benefit they get from Norway's oil policies?
Why do you rely on ChatGPT so much, many of its answers are rigged and biased.
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How on earth have you deduced that HS2 point from what I've said?

So you're defining 'the rich' as the top 1% of income-tax payers..?

I don't know why you're still talking about Norway.

I don't rely on ChatGPT 'so much' - I used it for one post where I wasn't inclined to put a load of effort into a reply to someone typing one line questions and not answering any in return.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
How on earth have you deduced that HS2 point from what I've said?

So you're defining 'the rich' as the top 1% of income-tax payers..?

I don't know why you're still talking about Norway.

I don't rely on ChatGPT 'so much' - I used it for one post where I wasn't inclined to put a load of effort into a reply to someone typing one line questions and not answering any in return.
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Well. you didn't challenge my comment that HS2 was an example of a government, as they often do, p'ing our money up the wall? What is your view of HS2?
There are around 340,000 in the top 1% of income-tax payers and if you include capital gains tax as well as income-tax, they pay 33% of such tax, amounting to around £94 billion, so yes. they are among what I and most people would describe as rich.
I''m still talking about Norway because it is a fine example of left-wing hypocrisy and it seems to irritate you.
What questions haven't I answered?
 
Norway can charge its high taxes because it has plenty of places within it that rich people still want to live in. It has massive natural resources and a small population.....the left always seem to ignore the rather large context....I remember Bernie Sanders getting told off for using Norway as some kind of criticism against capitalism by Norway's PM telling him that Norway was capitalist.

What blows my mind about the left (as did the Tories to be fair) is that they think they can bring in the third world into the UK (stats show they take more than create) and massively increase the population with all the infrastructure and ship these newcomers into nice rural living spaces lowering social cohesion.....and still have plenty of places that rich people will want to have their nice homes in....where they will expect nice low crime and trouble free lives....like a certain hypocrite in Cornwall we all know of.

Frankly I think it's fantasy to think that the money will just keep flowing.....in fact it's a fantasy even now as the government borrows billions every month just to stand still.

I'd like to think that the interest on those bonds will lower.....but I'm not seeing how that happens to be honest.
 
georgenorman said:
Well. you didn't challenge my comment that HS2 was an example of a government, as they often do, p'ing our money up the wall? What is your view of HS2?
There are around 340,000 in the top 1% of income-tax payers and if you include capital gains tax as well as income-tax, they pay 33% of such tax, amounting to around £94 billion, so yes. they are among what I and most people would describe as rich.
I''m still talking about Norway because it is a fine example of left-wing hypocrisy and it seems to irritate you.
What questions haven't I answered?
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Literally my whole argument has been how poor British governments have been at improving the lives of it's citizens over recent decades - you're now suggesting that I must mean HS2 is a roaring success..?

HS2 is a bad policy - the upsides vastly outweigh the expenditure. Pretty straightforward.

I agree that they can be described as rich - I'd argue that 'the rich' incorporates a lot of other people who pay far less tax, which is what I was getting at.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Literally my whole argument has been how poor British governments have been at improving the lives of it's citizens over recent decades - you're now suggesting that I must mean HS2 is a roaring success..?

HS2 is a bad policy - the upsides vastly outweigh the expenditure. Pretty straightforward.

I agree that they can be described as rich - I'd argue that 'the rich' incorporates a lot of other people who pay far less tax, which is what I was getting at.
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How do the upsides vastly outweigh the expenditure, or is that a typo or the wisdom of ChatLBG? Who are these lots of other people, if they exist and they are evading tax, then like benefit frauds they should be prosecuted. (Mind you, it would be good if we could prosecute governments for wasting so much of our money.)
 
georgenorman said:
How do the upsides vastly outweigh the expenditure, or is that a typo or the wisdom of ChatLBG? Who are these lots of other people, if they exist and they are evading tax, then like benefit frauds they should be prosecuted. (Mind you, it would be good if we could prosecute governments for wasting so much of our money.)
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It was a typo, if that’s allowed.
 
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