The Lumpen-Proletariat......a.k.a Skangers

[PalazioVecchio]

i would be reluctant to blame Thatcher. She stood for a work ethic, self sufficiency, low taxes, the nuclear family and all that. The meltdown of the industrial economy was well underway since WWII.

I would blame Lefties for a handout culture. Prevalent in France, Sweden and lots of other places with a huge Lumpen-Proletariat problem.

The Tipping-point of Western society happens on the day that women are better off not married, not in a relationship with an employed man, not choosing to be with a career-winner but choosing to reproduce with longterm unemployed types. Either a lifetime on the dole, at the bottom of society. Or career women working as Solicitors/Doctors/accountants at the top of society. The net effect is unaffordable housing for the working class man.
The fertility rate for workers hits the floor. Meanwhile the Lumpen-Proletariat have sky high rates of fertility. Often producing the kind of kids incapable of ever shining in a career.
Compare and contrast to 1946. Back then a bloke could get a job shovelling coal and raise a ton of kids, own his home, and live together with the wife.

Thatcher would have agreed with all of the above.

In the wild Savannah, slow Lions and slow Zebras all die out. In the Western Human Society, they thrive. It's the fast ones that are going extinct.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Compare and contrast to 1946. Back then a bloke could get a job shovelling coal and raise a ton of kids, own his home, and live together with the wife.

Thatcher would have agreed with all of the above.

Agreed, but Thatcher put that guy out of work.....and worst still didn't help him find another career....Tebbit told him to 'get on his bike'.

Fine for the twenty year old with just his c0ck to keep, not realistic for the guy with a wife and family.

She just shoved them on the dole and forgot about them.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

Agreed, but Thatcher put that guy out of work.....and worst still didn't help him find another career....Tebbit told him to 'get on his bike'.

Fine for the twenty year old with just his c0ck to keep, not realistic for the guy with a wife and family.

She just shoved them on the dole and forgot about them.

when the mine closed down, winners traveled to where the work was. Losers sat down and cried. Britain's coal/steel/textile towns should have been flattened for agricultural land.....after the industry finished. That is how it works in the US. Detroit was let die. We were mad to pay welfare to populate such towns with what is now coming home to roost. Crime, Poverty, and all the other stuff i cannot write on here.
Don't blame Thatcher.....her Supply Side policies tried to find new jobs and new careers for people. But it wasnt easy. All the industry, of the West, got out-competed by China. We now have Welsh mining towns with tons of people and no jobs. And all hotspots for a Lumpen-Proletariat to thrive.

Celts, Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans, ( other )........ if you are descended from these then you are descended from people who got up off their ass and tried to make something of their lives. Imagine how a Viking would respond if his 'place of employment' had gone bankrupt ?

 

[Stirlingsays]

when the mine closed down, winners traveled to where the work was. Losers sat down and cried. Britain's coal/steel/textile towns should have been flattened for agricultural land.....after the industry finished. That is how it works in the US. Detroit was let die. We were mad to pay welfare to populate such towns with what is now coming home to roost. Crime, Poverty, and all the other stuff i cannot write on here.
Don't blame Thatcher.....her Supply Side policies tried to find new jobs and new careers for people. But it wasnt easy. All the industry, of the West, got out-competed by China. We now have Welsh mining towns with tons of people and no jobs. And all hotspots for a Lumpen-Proletariat to thrive.

No I don't agree that 'losers sat down and cried'.

When you take people's living away I don't think that's good enough as a response. Like I said, not everyone could up and sticks as you think and you just ignore this and shrug your shoulders.

Thatcher was a full on neoliberal, overly obsessed with the city and prepared to abandon whole sectors of society....social eugenics. Some of what she did was necessary, other stuff actually created the problems that we now have to deal with.

While if you compare her to Trump he's a protectionist who actually cares about creating jobs for the working class.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

No I don't agree that 'losers sat down and cried'.

When you take people's living away I don't think that's good enough as a response. Like I said, not everyone could up and sticks as you think and you just ignore this and shrug your shoulders.

Thatcher was a full on neoliberal, overly obsessed with the city and prepared to abandon whole sectors of society....social eugenics. Some of what she did was necessary, other stuff actually created the problems that we now have to deal with.

While if you compare her to Trump he's a protectionist who actually cares about creating jobs for the working class.

Formerly , a massive farm gave employment to hundreds of labourers - all living in villages. Today, its half a dozen technicians, a tractor and a computer. The march of progress is relentless and unforgiving. But you cannot stick back in the past like Chairman Mao sending all the University graduates to shovel rice in the fields.
In medieval times you had a few village idiots. Today we have whole towns full of them.

not just UK heavy industry. From fishing trawlers to farms to everything. Change is inevitable and often traumatic.

Getting back on track, the Lumpen-proletariat.....when was there ever a precedent, in history, for having a class of people who live courtesy of the efforts of everybody else ? Even the toffs, the top, had to fight to get there.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Formerly , a massive farm gave employment to hundreds of labourers - all living in villages. Today, its half a dozen technicians, a tractor and a computer. The march of is relentless and unforgiving. But you cannot stick back in the past like Chairman Mao sending all the University graduates to shovel rice in the fields.
In medieval times you had a few village idiots. Today we have whole towns full of them.

If you are going to slag off the underclass, cool get in line as there's always a queue for that one.....However, if you are saying the jobs aren't there for them then that's not their fault.....Then you should be slagging off their leaders.

I'm not sure just how realistic this is. Society isn't just for the bright and talented. If you aren't producing enough living wage jobs within a society to support the average man and woman then you are creating a huge amount of problems.

'Let them eat cake', as an attitude didn't end so well.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

If you are going to slag off the underclass, cool get in line as there's always a queue for that one.....However, if you are saying the jobs aren't there for them then there's not their fault.....Then you should be slagging off their leaders.

I'm not sure just how realistic this is. Society isn't just for the bright and talented. If you aren't producing enough living wage jobs within a society to support the average man and woman then you are creating a huge amount of problems.

'Let them eat cake', as an attitude didn't end so well.

you are correct Eagle. However, i blame Western Capitalism and you are blaming shyte leaders. Who really knows ?
curiously, Spain and Italy have empty villages, dead towns. And simultaneously they have a housing crisis in their big wealthy cities. Modest Social Welfare = less of an underclass to drive you nuts.

i detect a difference of opinion as to from whence jobs come ? who creates the jobs ? you say Leaders, i say The free market. Its probably both.

 

[Stirlingsays]

you are correct Eagle. However, i blame Western Capitalism and you are blaming shyte leaders. Who really knows ?
curiously, Spain and Italy have empty villages, dead towns. And simultaneously they have a housing crisis in their big wealthy cities. Modest Social Welfare = less of an underclass to drive you nuts.

i detect a difference of opinion as to from whence jobs come ? who creates the jobs ? you say Leaders, i say The free market. Its probably both.

Government is the public sector.....Nice cushy jobs for the wealth class.....I have no issues with that if....as they demand for others, they actually produce effective results.

My rating....worse than useless.....We would probably be ran better as a country if you sacked the lot of them and replaced them with a cohort of plumbers.

I could go on forever about the disaster of socially liberal government....the wealth transfers...the 'anywheres' taking over from the 'somewheres', the promoted feminism which has resulted in a birth rate of 1.44 (which condemns future generations to poverty and social discord) the high rates of crime and lowering social cohesion.

But...

The most useful thing a government can do is produce the best environment for business to invest...because the private sector makes the money....without it nothing works.....that means an educated and disciplined workforce. They failed at that almost entirely down to their feminised social policies producing exactly the opposite of what was needed.

I'll stop ranting before my blood pressure starts.

 

[beak]

Margaret Thatcher has to take a lot of the blame for this.

Whilst I agree that the taxpayer should not fund obsolete industries such as coal, steel and car manufacturers it was the speed of change and lack of alternate jobs that created the problem.

Within a few short years we had whole areas of the country with high unemployment, people who had previously had jobs and then they didn't. As unemployment became the norm the next generation just decided they didn't have to work either and then it snowballed.

I grew up on a council estate in the 1960's men were ashamed if they were out of work it was not something you told your neighbours. Today it appears to be a source of pride for some about how much benefits they get.

This all traces back to Thatcher and not winding down heavy industry whilst providing alternate employment.

Are you standing for election and want my vote,you have it.