The business model

Willo said:
Of course Glasner will have known the business model and the ethos of our club.
Perhaps he is not enamoured by some of the acquisitions during his time at the helm.
It is clear that he believes, further investment in players should have been made in the summer, hence his comments that after an FA Cup win, a club needed to invest and not save.
I reiterate, that none of the outfield summer acquisitions have made a significant contribution.
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No doubt about it, they certainly have not. That's been a huge part of the problem. Imagine if Pino or Johnson had caught fire. How different would everything seem?

I think the thing is, when signings struggle there is a temptation to say that the club has failed to deliver, when it is perhaps more accurate (and fair) to say that the club seems to have spent all it can on players, that every transfer comes with risk, and that not all of them will work out as hoped no matter how much homework you do. I don't see that all the analytics and software has changed that, it has just widened the net.

In some ways we were always heading for a bit of a punch on the nose with this. In the last few years so many (though certainly not all) signings came up double six that we, as supporters, perhaps fell into the trap of thinking it was the result of a reliable process that could be repeated. In fact, each transfer is a bit of a gamble, and unique to itself.

To be a bit Holloway about it, if you met a beautiful girl in a particular bar one night and all went really very well indeed before the relationship ran its course and she moved on, it might be tempting to go back to that same bar to try again. Obviously, in the cold light of day a bar is one place you might meet someone, but so too are lots of other places. Even if there is another beautiful girl in that same bar when you arrive, there is nothing to say she will be interested in you. The exact same chat up lines that worked so well last time may fail. In other words repeating the same approach in anticipation of the same outcome is a classic case of false cause and effect, and of projecting a false sense of control onto the random.

I do of course mean that when, for instance, a few young signings from the Championship go well, its natural to think that we should only buy young championship players. In fact, the championship is one place to look along with abroad, big teams benches, the academy, and wherever else. We have made good and bad signings from all these places, and will do so again. The idea that one place is more reliable is just projecting control and reliability on to what is really quite an unpredictable and random endeavour.

So, for those on the lookout, my advice is that you are just as likely to meet a nice girl at work, or in the library, as in a bar. The trick is to keep all avenues open, not to mistaken one of them as reliable, and of course, don't spend what you haven't got hoping to attract someone you can't keep up with, it'll only end in tears (and debt). Better to focus on making the very best of yourself as you are. Perhaps by building a new stand. Something like that.
 
For a long time the club has been slow to fill obvious gaps (like taking three years to sign competiton for Mitchell at left back and no backup for Munoz), while some decisions have just seemed odd, like signing three right wingers (Sarr, Pino, Johnson) but no one whose preferred position is on the left (i.e. where Eze played). We signed Nketiah, but I and many others (in fact I think most fans) said at the time he doesn't fit the way we play and he was never likely to be sold on at a profit. We now have no attacking central midfielders, no players who are natural dribblers, and we just lost our captain and key centre-back with no senior back-up. What is the plan?

The club may well fill the gaps and we'll go again, but I think we're walking a dangerous line.
 
TheBigToePunt said:
No doubt about it, they certainly have not. That's been a huge part of the problem. Imagine if Pino or Johnson had caught fire. How different would everything seem?

I think the thing is, when signings struggle there is a temptation to say that the club has failed to deliver, when it is perhaps more accurate (and fair) to say that the club seems to have spent all it can on players, that every transfer comes with risk, and that not all of them will work out as hoped no matter how much homework you do. I don't see that all the analytics and software has changed that, it has just widened the net.

In some ways we were always heading for a bit of a punch on the nose with this. In the last few years so many (though certainly not all) signings came up double six that we, as supporters, perhaps fell into the trap of thinking it was the result of a reliable process that could be repeated. In fact, each transfer is a bit of a gamble, and unique to itself.

To be a bit Holloway about it, if you met a beautiful girl in a particular bar one night and all went really very well indeed before the relationship ran its course and she moved on, it might be tempting to go back to that same bar to try again. Obviously, in the cold light of day a bar is one place you might meet someone, but so too are lots of other places. Even if there is another beautiful girl in that same bar when you arrive, there is nothing to say she will be interested in you. The exact same chat up lines that worked so well last time may fail. In other words repeating the same approach in anticipation of the same outcome is a classic case of false cause and effect, and of projecting a false sense of control onto the random.

I do of course mean that when, for instance, a few young signings from the Championship go well, its natural to think that we should only buy young championship players. In fact, the championship is one place to look along with abroad, big teams benches, the academy, and wherever else. We have made good and bad signings from all these places, and will do so again. The idea that one place is more reliable is just projecting control and reliability on to what is really quite an unpredictable and random endeavour.

So, for those on the lookout, my advice is that you are just as likely to meet a nice girl at work, or in the library, as in a bar. The trick is to keep all avenues open, not to mistaken one of them as reliable, and of course, don't spend what you haven't got hoping to attract someone you can't keep up with, it'll only end in tears (and debt). Better to focus on making the very best of yourself as you are. Perhaps by building a new stand. Something like that.
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Nothing like a nice stand to attract the girls! 😉
 
Crystal Palace will never be a Man C, United, Arsenal, Chelsea etc, but what they have to do is not become a Norwich, Blackburn, Stoke, Southampton, Leicester etc, it only takes one season of financial excess to drop into that dark hole.
 
Were I ever to sit down before a slide deck presentation from the board on the CPFC model, I'd wager the first slide would read Sustainability. Woven into every subsequent slide too.

No doubt desperately unadventurous to many of the eager throng but betting the farm on the fads and vagaries of the clickbait-fueled "greatest league in the world" has not been the ethos for 15 years and we can thank being at the top level for more than a decade and our first meaningful trophies because this m.o has held fast.
 
Joseph Paxton said:
Were I ever to sit down before a slide deck presentation from the board on the CPFC model, I'd wager the first slide would read Sustainability. Woven into every subsequent slide too.

No doubt desperately unadventurous to many of the eager throng but betting the farm on the fads and vagaries of the clickbait-fueled "greatest league in the world" has not been the ethos for 15 years and we can thank being at the top level for more than a decade and our first meaningful trophies because this m.o has held fast.
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I agree with you.

And our longevity of stay in the Premier League is ample proof that the approach / business model works from that perspective.

But....and this is personal to me.....I'm actually quite bored with it.

If I did a check list of what motivates me to go to games these days the actual match is not top of the list. It's behind seeing my daughter and son, both season ticket holders with me in the Lower Holmesdale. It's behind seeing my grandchildren taking their first fledgling steps in a life time of almost certain football misery. It's behind travelling up with my ' Palace Family ' from the South Coast. And catching up with other mates in the Victory Club or Dark Horse. I won't stop going for those reasons.

Last season we broke the mould and I couldn't have been happier. It re-energised me. And I've been fortunate to be able to go to all the European games this season. But now I'm seeing Palace revert to type. Who could have predicted the present shitshow back on the balmy May evening at Wembley ?

I fully understand the constraints under which Steve Parish works. I think he could be a little less cautious at times, but in the great scheme of things are the potential risks actually worth it ?

The Premier League is now being run in such a way that it makes it extremely difficult for a club such as ours to sustain any success it enjoys. It pretty much exists for the benefit of a handful of clubs.

I love football. And I love my club.

But I've no love for the Premier League
 
NEILLO said:
I agree with you.

And our longevity of stay in the Premier League is ample proof that the approach / business model works from that perspective.

But....and this is personal to me.....I'm actually quite bored with it.

If I did a check list of what motivates me to go to games these days the actual match is not top of the list. It's behind seeing my daughter and son, both season ticket holders with me in the Lower Holmesdale. It's behind seeing my grandchildren taking their first fledgling steps in a life time of almost certain football misery. It's behind travelling up with my ' Palace Family ' from the South Coast. And catching up with other mates in the Victory Club or Dark Horse. I won't stop going for those reasons.

Last season we broke the mould and I couldn't have been happier. It re-energised me. And I've been fortunate to be able to go to all the European games this season. But now I'm seeing Palace revert to type. Who could have predicted the present shitshow back on the balmy May evening at Wembley ?

I fully understand the constraints under which Steve Parish works. I think he could be a little less cautious at times, but in the great scheme of things are the potential risks actually worth it ?

The Premier League is now being run in such a way that it makes it extremely difficult for a club such as ours to sustain any success it enjoys. It pretty much exists for the benefit of a handful of clubs.

I love football. And I love my club.

But I've no love for the Premier League
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Perhaps we will be 'Ploughing our furrow' in the Championship next season.
Some might consider this a very remote possibility but we are in 'Deep water', holed below the waterline, glug,glug,glug.
 
Willo said:
Of course Glasner will have known the business model and the ethos of our club.
Perhaps he is not enamoured by some of the acquisitions during his time at the helm.
It is clear that he believes, further investment in players should have been made in the summer, hence his comments that after an FA Cup win, a club needed to invest and not save.
I reiterate, that none of the outfield summer acquisitions have made a significant contribution.
Click to expand...
Oliver Glasner is the only Palace coach I've seen who clearly has improved our squad. Some may need a little longer, but that should feed into the model because there's absolute value added with a coach with those skills. Some players don't fit the profile, others like Mitchell are far better than a couple of years ago.
 
chris123 said:
Oliver Glasner is the only Palace coach I've seen who clearly has improved our squad. Some may need a little longer, but that should feed into the model because there's absolute value added with a coach with those skills. Some players don't fit the profile, others like Mitchell are far better than a couple of years ago.
Click to expand...
I think you can make a compelling case that Pullis massively improved players in his short tenure. It ended sourly but the transformation he delivered was remarkable. Big Sam the same.

Even Viera managed to change our whole style of play before it went off the rails.
 
NEILLO said:
I agree with you.

And our longevity of stay in the Premier League is ample proof that the approach / business model works from that perspective.

But....and this is personal to me.....I'm actually quite bored with it.

If I did a check list of what motivates me to go to games these days the actual match is not top of the list. It's behind seeing my daughter and son, both season ticket holders with me in the Lower Holmesdale. It's behind seeing my grandchildren taking their first fledgling steps in a life time of almost certain football misery. It's behind travelling up with my ' Palace Family ' from the South Coast. And catching up with other mates in the Victory Club or Dark Horse. I won't stop going for those reasons.

Last season we broke the mould and I couldn't have been happier. It re-energised me. And I've been fortunate to be able to go to all the European games this season. But now I'm seeing Palace revert to type. Who could have predicted the present shitshow back on the balmy May evening at Wembley ?

I fully understand the constraints under which Steve Parish works. I think he could be a little less cautious at times, but in the great scheme of things are the potential risks actually worth it ?

The Premier League is now being run in such a way that it makes it extremely difficult for a club such as ours to sustain any success it enjoys. It pretty much exists for the benefit of a handful of clubs.

I love football. And I love my club.

But I've no love for the Premier League
Click to expand...

I get where you are coming from.

I dont think there are many options open to us, mainly because its going to be next to impossible to break the top 8. Realistically you have Liverpool, Arsenal, City currently fighting for titles. You have Utd and Chelsea who are rebuilding. You then have Spurs, Newcastle and Villa.

Of course, as we've seen with these teams, some will have bad years/periods but like it not they will rise again. So getting into the top 8, depends a little on how we do, but also needs a couple of the above to have poor seasons.

Its a zero sum gain.

So it feels like there are broadly 2 options to us:

Focus on Premiership sustainability, with the chance of a decent cup run (one ever 5 year?) or European place (once a decade?)

or

Push harder, but be mindful that others have tried and failed, and still haven't made it back to he prem. And the 'excitement' might be trying to get out of League 1!


IMO option 1 is the only sensible way to go. Last season we had a cup win, this season we have a European tour.
 
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