The business model

[TheBigToePunt]

Seems like an appropriate time to remember how the club is run, and why.

About five years ago the club made a conscious decision to change it's approach to player trading. We had had very little resale value on the pitch for a number of years, which in turn had limited our spending power.

Most of our notable signings since then were made on the basis that they could be sold on at a profit in due course, once they'd done a good job for us.

Most of the successful signings either could have signed for a big club instead of us, or moved to one instead of signing their second contract with us.

To be clear, almost no player would prefer to play for Palace than for Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, they just prefer playing for us to sitting on the bench or in the stands for them. That is increasingly the likely outcome unless the player has established their credentials in the top flight.

That's where we come in. We cannot offer the wages or the standard of football that the big boys can, but we can offer a greater chance of playing regularly, from which a player can develop. And let's remember, that's develop into a player who might actually play, on the pitch, most weeks, for one of the big boys. Not develop into a career palace legend. None of them want that if they might be even remotely good enough to move upwards. Not even 'one of our own' players.

For all the predictable complaints about Parish or the club not 'investing' enough, Palace are very tight against FFP, especially the European FFP which we just about scrapped into compliance with. Selling well suits us because we get a healthier budget, but it doesn't make us rich. It just keeps the show on the road. It's like having a wage that covers the mortgage and bills now, rather than living on credit cards which will always catch up with you.

So, what we are seeing now is exactly what was planned. Nothing is broken. Nobody is failing. We will build a team for a two or three years cycle, hopefully it will be respectably competitive, or at least competent in the top flight, then it will be dismantled so that we can repeat the process. Then, if all goes well, it will happen again. Then again. And that is so we can tread water. It is not the plan, nor can it ever be the plan, to build a team that develops to take us to a higher level. Those sums don't work. Moreover, it's not what the players sign up for, and not what they will accept. And they have the power and the choices. Much the same is true of attracting very good coaches. We are a platform, an opportunity. Glasner was never, ever going to stay once he'd won something. The moment the final whistle blew at Wembley, he'd reached the top of our mountain.

There is no version of reality in which palace 'kick on'. What has happened in the last two years is the absolute peak of what is possible, and even that is not because winning the cup can be planned for and delivered. It's just the best thing that might possibly happen.

I'm glad Glasner told the club in very good time that he wasn't staying. I'm glad that was kept under wraps. I'm glad they are getting a fee for Guehi. I've no idea why anyone would say this is bad. All of this is the model working.

I'm not saying it's enjoyable. I'd love for football to be different. But it isn't. This is the reality that the club is set up to be prepared for. It seems like it's just some of us that aren't!

 

[thegreatlardino]

Sorry that's much to sensible.

 

[Willo]

Seems like an appropriate time to remember how the club is run, and why.

About five years ago the club made a conscious decision to change it's approach to player trading. We had had very little resale value on the pitch for a number of years, which in turn had limited our spending power.

Most of our notable signings since then were made on the basis that they could be sold on at a profit in due course, once they'd done a good job for us.

Most of the successful signings either could have signed for a big club instead of us, or moved to one instead of signing their second contract with us.

To be clear, almost no player would prefer to play for Palace than for Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, they just prefer playing for us to sitting on the bench or in the stands for them. That is increasingly the likely outcome unless the player has established their credentials in the top flight.

That's where we come in. We cannot offer the wages or the standard of football that the big boys can, but we can offer a greater chance of playing regularly, from which a player can develop. And let's remember, that's develop into a player who might actually play, on the pitch, most weeks, for one of the big boys. Not develop into a career palace legend. None of them want that if they might be even remotely good enough to move upwards. Not even 'one of our own' players.

For all the predictable complaints about Parish or the club not 'investing' enough, Palace are very tight against FFP, especially the European FFP which we just about scrapped into compliance with. Selling well suits us because we get a healthier budget, but it doesn't make us rich. It just keeps the show on the road. It's like having a wage that covers the mortgage and bills now, rather than living on credit cards which will always catch up with you.

So, what we are seeing now is exactly what was planned. Nothing is broken. Nobody is failing. We will build a team for a two or three years cycle, hopefully it will be respectably competitive, or at least competent in the top flight, then it will be dismantled so that we can repeat the process. Then, if all goes well, it will happen again. Then again. And that is so we can tread water. It is not the plan, nor can it ever be the plan, to build a team that develops to take us to a higher level. Those sums don't work. Moreover, it's not what the players sign up for, and not what they will accept. And they have the power and the choices. Much the same is true of attracting very good coaches. We are a platform, an opportunity. Glasner was never, ever going to stay once he'd won something. The moment the final whistle blew at Wembley, he'd reached the top of our mountain.

There is no version of reality in which palace 'kick on'. What has happened in the last two years is the absolute peak of what is possible, and even that is not because winning the cup can be planned for and delivered. It's just the best thing that might possibly happen.

I'm glad Glasner told the club in very good time that he wasn't staying. I'm glad that was kept under wraps. I'm glad they are getting a fee for Guehi. I've no idea why anyone would say this is bad. All of this is the model working.

I'm not saying it's enjoyable. I'd love for football to be different. But it isn't. This is the reality that the club is set up to be prepared for. It seems like it's just some of us that aren't!

An eloquent and cerebral contribution to the debate, rooted in sound judgement.
I doff my 'Titfer'.

 

[JHB]

Seems like an appropriate time to remember how the club is run, and why.

About five years ago the club made a conscious decision to change it's approach to player trading. We had had very little resale value on the pitch for a number of years, which in turn had limited our spending power.

Most of our notable signings since then were made on the basis that they could be sold on at a profit in due course, once they'd done a good job for us.

Most of the successful signings either could have signed for a big club instead of us, or moved to one instead of signing their second contract with us.

To be clear, almost no player would prefer to play for Palace than for Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, they just prefer playing for us to sitting on the bench or in the stands for them. That is increasingly the likely outcome unless the player has established their credentials in the top flight.

That's where we come in. We cannot offer the wages or the standard of football that the big boys can, but we can offer a greater chance of playing regularly, from which a player can develop. And let's remember, that's develop into a player who might actually play, on the pitch, most weeks, for one of the big boys. Not develop into a career palace legend. None of them want that if they might be even remotely good enough to move upwards. Not even 'one of our own' players.

For all the predictable complaints about Parish or the club not 'investing' enough, Palace are very tight against FFP, especially the European FFP which we just about scrapped into compliance with. Selling well suits us because we get a healthier budget, but it doesn't make us rich. It just keeps the show on the road. It's like having a wage that covers the mortgage and bills now, rather than living on credit cards which will always catch up with you.

So, what we are seeing now is exactly what was planned. Nothing is broken. Nobody is failing. We will build a team for a two or three years cycle, hopefully it will be respectably competitive, or at least competent in the top flight, then it will be dismantled so that we can repeat the process. Then, if all goes well, it will happen again. Then again. And that is so we can tread water. It is not the plan, nor can it ever be the plan, to build a team that develops to take us to a higher level. Those sums don't work. Moreover, it's not what the players sign up for, and not what they will accept. And they have the power and the choices. Much the same is true of attracting very good coaches. We are a platform, an opportunity. Glasner was never, ever going to stay once he'd won something. The moment the final whistle blew at Wembley, he'd reached the top of our mountain.

There is no version of reality in which palace 'kick on'. What has happened in the last two years is the absolute peak of what is possible, and even that is not because winning the cup can be planned for and delivered. It's just the best thing that might possibly happen.

I'm glad Glasner told the club in very good time that he wasn't staying. I'm glad that was kept under wraps. I'm glad they are getting a fee for Guehi. I've no idea why anyone would say this is bad. All of this is the model working.

I'm not saying it's enjoyable. I'd love for football to be different. But it isn't. This is the reality that the club is set up to be prepared for. It seems like it's just some of us that aren't!

This is right. Financial rules are designed to create a closed shop at the top. It stops any club buying their way up into the top places. Look at Newcastle. They have effectively unlimited funds but are restricted by financial rules. We are bound by the same rules and don’t have unlimited funds. The model for us is mid table and hopefully go on a cup run every so often. If things go really well then qualifying for the Europa league is a possibility but that’s it.

On OG it wouldn’t have made any difference to him staying whether we did more activity in the summer window. He was never going to extend his contract. This is a rinse and repeat of his time at other clubs.

 

[Davepalace707]

Good post, fair to say the quality of signings last summer haven’t exactly set the world alight yet, the business model only works if the players are up to the task. Here’s hoping Johnson proves a good signing and we get a few more.

 

[NEILLO]

Seems like an appropriate time to remember how the club is run, and why.

About five years ago the club made a conscious decision to change it's approach to player trading. We had had very little resale value on the pitch for a number of years, which in turn had limited our spending power.

Most of our notable signings since then were made on the basis that they could be sold on at a profit in due course, once they'd done a good job for us.

Most of the successful signings either could have signed for a big club instead of us, or moved to one instead of signing their second contract with us.

To be clear, almost no player would prefer to play for Palace than for Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, they just prefer playing for us to sitting on the bench or in the stands for them. That is increasingly the likely outcome unless the player has established their credentials in the top flight.

That's where we come in. We cannot offer the wages or the standard of football that the big boys can, but we can offer a greater chance of playing regularly, from which a player can develop. And let's remember, that's develop into a player who might actually play, on the pitch, most weeks, for one of the big boys. Not develop into a career palace legend. None of them want that if they might be even remotely good enough to move upwards. Not even 'one of our own' players.

For all the predictable complaints about Parish or the club not 'investing' enough, Palace are very tight against FFP, especially the European FFP which we just about scrapped into compliance with. Selling well suits us because we get a healthier budget, but it doesn't make us rich. It just keeps the show on the road. It's like having a wage that covers the mortgage and bills now, rather than living on credit cards which will always catch up with you.

So, what we are seeing now is exactly what was planned. Nothing is broken. Nobody is failing. We will build a team for a two or three years cycle, hopefully it will be respectably competitive, or at least competent in the top flight, then it will be dismantled so that we can repeat the process. Then, if all goes well, it will happen again. Then again. And that is so we can tread water. It is not the plan, nor can it ever be the plan, to build a team that develops to take us to a higher level. Those sums don't work. Moreover, it's not what the players sign up for, and not what they will accept. And they have the power and the choices. Much the same is true of attracting very good coaches. We are a platform, an opportunity. Glasner was never, ever going to stay once he'd won something. The moment the final whistle blew at Wembley, he'd reached the top of our mountain.

There is no version of reality in which palace 'kick on'. What has happened in the last two years is the absolute peak of what is possible, and even that is not because winning the cup can be planned for and delivered. It's just the best thing that might possibly happen.

I'm glad Glasner told the club in very good time that he wasn't staying. I'm glad that was kept under wraps. I'm glad they are getting a fee for Guehi. I've no idea why anyone would say this is bad. All of this is the model working.

I'm not saying it's enjoyable. I'd love for football to be different. But it isn't. This is the reality that the club is set up to be prepared for. It seems like it's just some of us that aren't!

A timely reminder indeed !

And also a bit depressing. I used to wonder how fans of the likes of Coventry and Stoke kept motivated when the level of their ambition was survival in the top flight. Year in, year out just striving to get enough points to guarantee safety. Until that got beyond them. Now I've experienced similar with Palace. Last year I hoped would be a turning point and that the club would set their ambitions a bit higher.

But that hasn't happened. And I'm not convinced that is solely due to the Business Model. I think it's more to do with signings that have not been value for money - Nketiah being a prime, expensive example. The club knew on the evening of May 17th that the next season would be a challenge. It's true to say that by the end of the transfer window we had brought players in, but none of them are good enough or quite ready to challenge for a place in the starting line up. Pino has been a first team regular but more from necessity than his form / performances. Canvot I think has potential and I think we'll see a lot more from him. Uche doesn't look good enough nor does Sosa. Those players would not be serious competition for a starting spot in a fully fit squad.

So I look back at last summer and wonder whether we could have done better. Even after taking into account where we are in footballs food chain. I know I keep referring back to it but that Guehi/Igor debacle on the last day of that window still plays on my mind. That smacked of mis-management to me, and I don't want to think about where we would be now if Marc had gone then.

This is my 59th season as a fan. Obviously I have no sense of entitlement. And I have had to experience plenty of disappointments down the years. This is by no means the worst one.

I'm grateful for last season. It was something I thought I'd never live to see. My frustration is that we haven't / can't / won't build on that. An acceptance of a possible return to mediocrity dressed up as survival is something I'm really struggling with.

I'm hoping that Parish has a post Glasner plan that will re-engage me with the club. But it's that the kills you !

 

[DenTyler]

Seems like an appropriate time to remember how the club is run, and why.

About five years ago the club made a conscious decision to change it's approach to player trading. We had had very little resale value on the pitch for a number of years, which in turn had limited our spending power.

Most of our notable signings since then were made on the basis that they could be sold on at a profit in due course, once they'd done a good job for us.

Most of the successful signings either could have signed for a big club instead of us, or moved to one instead of signing their second contract with us.

To be clear, almost no player would prefer to play for Palace than for Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, they just prefer playing for us to sitting on the bench or in the stands for them. That is increasingly the likely outcome unless the player has established their credentials in the top flight.

That's where we come in. We cannot offer the wages or the standard of football that the big boys can, but we can offer a greater chance of playing regularly, from which a player can develop. And let's remember, that's develop into a player who might actually play, on the pitch, most weeks, for one of the big boys. Not develop into a career palace legend. None of them want that if they might be even remotely good enough to move upwards. Not even 'one of our own' players.

For all the predictable complaints about Parish or the club not 'investing' enough, Palace are very tight against FFP, especially the European FFP which we just about scrapped into compliance with. Selling well suits us because we get a healthier budget, but it doesn't make us rich. It just keeps the show on the road. It's like having a wage that covers the mortgage and bills now, rather than living on credit cards which will always catch up with you.

So, what we are seeing now is exactly what was planned. Nothing is broken. Nobody is failing. We will build a team for a two or three years cycle, hopefully it will be respectably competitive, or at least competent in the top flight, then it will be dismantled so that we can repeat the process. Then, if all goes well, it will happen again. Then again. And that is so we can tread water. It is not the plan, nor can it ever be the plan, to build a team that develops to take us to a higher level. Those sums don't work. Moreover, it's not what the players sign up for, and not what they will accept. And they have the power and the choices. Much the same is true of attracting very good coaches. We are a platform, an opportunity. Glasner was never, ever going to stay once he'd won something. The moment the final whistle blew at Wembley, he'd reached the top of our mountain.

There is no version of reality in which palace 'kick on'. What has happened in the last two years is the absolute peak of what is possible, and even that is not because winning the cup can be planned for and delivered. It's just the best thing that might possibly happen.

I'm glad Glasner told the club in very good time that he wasn't staying. I'm glad that was kept under wraps. I'm glad they are getting a fee for Guehi. I've no idea why anyone would say this is bad. All of this is the model working.

I'm not saying it's enjoyable. I'd love for football to be different. But it isn't. This is the reality that the club is set up to be prepared for. It seems like it's just some of us that aren't!

Brutal but absolutely correct post. Excellent summing up and a real reality check to all of us that thought we were going onto bigger and better things. Great post 👏🏻

 

[Faz]

Very well worded & re informative post

A reminder bodes well when squeaky bum time kicks in

Yet - with this plan & with a great set of coaches players & system have been developed with great Achievements

But - with what we achieved should the board not have reviewed the Model & say hey if we want to get more we need more , if we want to continue we need more legs especially if legs get injured

We have wealthy investors whom can add value - how does the current model
Now fit the current status & forward plans - whatever that plan is ?

 

[TheBigToePunt]

A timely reminder indeed !

And also a bit depressing. I used to wonder how fans of the likes of Coventry and Stoke kept motivated when the level of their ambition was survival in the top flight. Year in, year out just striving to get enough points to guarantee safety. Until that got beyond them. Now I've experienced similar with Palace. Last year I hoped would be a turning point and that the club would set their ambitions a bit higher.

But that hasn't happened. And I'm not convinced that is solely due to the Business Model. I think it's more to do with signings that have not been value for money - Nketiah being a prime, expensive example. The club knew on the evening of May 17th that the next season would be a challenge. It's true to say that by the end of the transfer window we had brought players in, but none of them are good enough or quite ready to challenge for a place in the starting line up. Pino has been a first team regular but more from necessity than his form / performances. Canvot I think has potential and I think we'll see a lot more from him. Uche doesn't look good enough nor does Sosa. Those players would not be serious competition for a starting spot in a fully fit squad.

So I look back at last summer and wonder whether we could have done better. Even after taking into account where we are in footballs food chain. I know I keep referring back to it but that Guehi/Igor debacle on the last day of that window still plays on my mind. That smacked of mis-management to me, and I don't want to think about where we would be now if Marc had gone then.

This is my 59th season as a fan. Obviously I have no sense of entitlement. And I have had to experience plenty of disappointments down the years. This is by no means the worst one.

I'm grateful for last season. It was something I thought I'd never live to see. My frustration is that we haven't / can't / won't build on that. An acceptance of a possible return to mediocrity dressed up as survival is something I'm really struggling with.

I'm hoping that Parish has a post Glasner plan that will re-engage me with the club. But it's that the kills you !

Coventry and Stoke are interesting cases to consider. The former spent what seemed like eons in midtable, they were well run if conservative and unspectacular. Along the way they had some famous wins, some cracking players, and won the cup. As I recall, at the time they changed ownership some of their fans wanted a new direction and greater ambition. All that actually happened was that people who either loved the club, or at least ran it sensibly were replaced by people who did neither. The rest is history, and not a pleasant one. Only now are they back in sensible hands. Hands that look a lot like those of Parish.

Stoke got up and stayed up playing Pulis ball. Even though he was very well liked personally and his methods worked, after a while anyone would get bored of watching it and want something more. They got it for a while under Hughes, but seemingly at the cost of the heart of the team. They took one step forward and five back.

I suppose those clubs suggest we should be careful what we wish for.

At the same time, the vast majority of football supporters live with one eye on the game in progress and one on its role in a wider aim. A stale game is excusable, maybe even enjoyable, if it's part of trying to go up, or staying up once you get there. The problem comes when they're is no threat of going down and no hope of moving up. I suppose that's where Coventry and Stoke were, and where we are.

To my mind, pushing against the economic tide is madness, albeit also the natural instinct at times. I'm not sure there is a lot wrong with mid table existence in itself, where we can turn up to any game with some hope of winning it, especially if we also take the cups seriously.

The problem is that the method of achieving mid table safety is likely to be tedious on a game by game basis. I can understand why so many were so fed up watching palace under the driest spells of Hodgsons time. He was sort of our Pulis in that way (more so than the actual Pulis!). I'm not sure it can be avoided though. We won't often have anyone as good as Eze or Olise, and probably never have two at the same time. Perhaps the right coach can create a team worth watching at palace, within the wider business model. The guy at Bournemouth seems to have done it, a couple of the more recent Brighton coaches have, though in both cases the model came along and bit back hard.

There is no doubt that the model we have relies on signings not just working, but a good few being fantastic. Transfers are always unpredictable and never guaranteed, though. My concern with our approach is that a recycling club will naturally risk going back to the well too many times.

Mistakes will always be made here and there and I'm sure Parish could tell us all about his biggest regrets along the way. At least he is acting in accordance with an overarching strategy that makes sense.

 

[PatrickA]

The problem at the moment is that the club (and Parish) seem to be losing control of events.
Freedman as DOF has gone,Eze has gone and this will be followed by the captain and the manager and possibly even JPM.
Matt Hobbs is apparently on a short term deal and our transfer policy seems all over the place.
It's fine having a policy as long as it's one of chaos.

 

[ex hibitionist]

No one's expecting miracles, and we'll always be a stepping stone, but why can't we set our aim at 8th rather than 12th and have a stadium that's fit for purpose - can that not be part of the model? And if that were the case, as it should be, then a certain level of player, like Sarr, would be happier here than a bench warmer at a bigger club, and that level of player can make you seriously competitive and win you the odd trophy - like Drinkwater and Vardy at Leicester.