The bbc, again.

Fully disagree with the idea that he intended for a violent protest at the capital.

It's unprovable either way and so should never be accepted as something factual that informs how media organisations present information.

If it's suggested then the alternative view that this is contested should also be presented.
Like all but a handful of people in Florida I did not watch that programme to know if sufficient balance was shown.

Did you?

You didn't have to intend to cause the insurrection. Reckless is enough. Trump is more than aware of his gun toting paranoid support and the inevitable reaction to his various statements.

Emphasis on various. It was not just this speech was it? Other speeches and various social media posts that millions read and many believed without question.

Especially his gun toting paranoid support.

There is only so far you (and AS) can take your support for Trump and hatred of the BBC.
 
Like all but a handful of people in Florida I did not watch that programme to know if sufficient balance was shown.

Did you?

I only saw the controversial clip via other media. I don't have a BBC license.

However, I have observed the BBC's attitude towards Trump via their website since he turned up and quite frankly it's been very obviously very biased.

You didn't have to intend to cause the insurrection. Reckless is enough. Trump is more than aware of his gun toting paranoid support and the inevitable reaction to his various statements.

Sure he was aware of it, that's why he said 'peaceful'.
Personally I believe he wanted a big protest certainly. I don't think he's knew what was going to happen and there's zero evidence that he did.

Most of those protestors were caught up in the situation and followed the ring leaders.....some of that is questionable in terms of who they were. However, if the main mass of them had indeed gone there for an 'insurrection' (as it's laughably described) then they would have come locked and loaded.....No one carries out a coup without weapons.

The whole thing is a bad joke.

Emphasis on various. It was not just this speech was it? Other speeches and various social media posts that millions read and many believed without question.

We are talking about whether Trump was trying to overthrow a government here, Trump not believing the election was fair isn't that.

Especially his gun toting paranoid support.

Who didn't turn up with guns.....Perhaps the prejudice is less accurate that the reality.

There is only so far you (and AS) can take your support for Trump and hatred of the BBC.

I only support Trump insomuch as I'm against open borders and the state supporting and funding girls and boys to cut their genitals off and push anti white propaganda.

As I've stated I regard Trump 2.0 as having been awful.

Yes, I dislike the BBC.

Hate is an overused and, in this case, hyperbolic word.
 
Like all but a handful of people in Florida I did not watch that programme to know if sufficient balance was shown.

Did you?

You didn't have to intend to cause the insurrection. Reckless is enough. Trump is more than aware of his gun toting paranoid support and the inevitable reaction to his various statements.

Emphasis on various. It was not just this speech was it? Other speeches and various social media posts that millions read and many believed without question.

Especially his gun toting paranoid support.

There is only so far you (and AS) can take your support for Trump and hatred of the BBC.
I did watch the BBC documentary and I believed it. I'm not that big a fan of Trump. My main gripes about the BBC would be it's ridiculous cover ups and payouts for paedos - which is never addressed by some people. Presuming you think that's fine? I don't. And the money wasting of TV licence fees on pet projects and propaganda - rather than fulfilling its mandate whatsoever.

I don't see what's so hard to just say that the BBC got this incredibly wrong and then doubled down on it but were forced to act in the end. If there was no outcry, the BBC would not have acted at all. Their own watchdog called them out and they didn't care.
It is indeed their hatred of Trump which has led to this - it can hardly be attributed to my hate. With Trump I'd just be practical. We have to just put up with him - like we did the long row of other terrible presidents.
 
I only saw the controversial clip via other media. I don't have a BBC license.

However, I have observed the BBC's attitude towards Trump via their website since he turned up and quite frankly it's been very obviously very biased.



Sure he was aware of it, that's why he said 'peaceful'.
Personally I believe he wanted a big protest certainly. I don't think he's knew what was going to happen and there's zero evidence that he did.

Most of those protestors were caught up in the situation and followed the ring leaders.....some of that is questionable in terms of who they were. However, if the main mass of them had indeed gone there for an 'insurrection' (as it's laughably described) then they would have come locked and loaded.....No one carries out a coup without weapons.

The whole thing is a bad joke.



We are talking about whether Trump was trying to overthrow a government here, Trump not believing the election was fair isn't that.



Who didn't turn up with guns.....Perhaps the prejudice is less accurate that the reality.



I only support Trump insomuch as I'm against open borders and the state supporting and funding girls and boys to cut their genitals off and push anti white propaganda.

As I've stated I regard Trump 2.0 as having been awful.

Yes, I dislike the BBC.

Hate is an overused and, in this case, hyperbolic word.
I disagree with the obvious partial broadcast of Trump.

1 You do not listen to or watch BBC. That gives you a better view.
2 The media accross the board appears unsympathetic to Trump including comparable outlets like ITN and right(er) wing media like GB News. Why should the BBC be any different?
3 I say appears as mostly Trump creates his own "partiality". All the media outlets do is report his latest attack on allies, breaking of international treaties, proposing injecting disinfectant as a cure for COVID, engaging in wars as quid pro quo for political donations etc. He is the gift that keeps on giving. Do they not report?
4 You are partial against him.
 
I did watch the BBC documentary and I believed it. I'm not that big a fan of Trump. My main gripes about the BBC would be it's ridiculous cover ups and payouts for paedos - which is never addressed by some people. Presuming you think that's fine? I don't. And the money wasting of TV licence fees on pet projects and propaganda - rather than fulfilling its mandate whatsoever.

I don't see what's so hard to just say that the BBC got this incredibly wrong and then doubled down on it but were forced to act in the end. If there was no outcry, the BBC would not have acted at all. Their own watchdog called them out and they didn't care.
It is indeed their hatred of Trump which has led to this - it can hardly be attributed to my hate. With Trump I'd just be practical. We have to just put up with him - like we did the long row of other terrible presidents.
My comments about the BBC ignore all the outside stuff like Saville. I am talking only about this broadcast and the BBC defence.

You are also ignoring the evidence of offenders who say they were incited by Trump to storm the Capitol and the totality of statements Trump made in broadcast and - more importantly - posts. Not just this speech.

The BBC did edit that in a way that distorted it's delivery (although query whether it genuinely changed the message of the speech as a whole to much of his base - I don't know). This justified the apology and decapitations at the top.

However Trump still needs to prove both falsehood and malice. The former is complicated but the latter would be prohibitively difficult as there wasn't any.

He has already reduced his claim from US billions to US millions as he had to adduce evidence of the financial loss he claimed.

There wasn't any.

Who makes an outrageously exaggerated claim but an extortionist seeking to oppress media outlets as he had done several times in the past.

From what I see, the media are whooping their support for the BBC over the Pond. Finally someone is standing up to him.

So why not you.
 
I disagree with the obvious partial broadcast of Trump.

1 You do not listen to or watch BBC. That gives you a better view.

I was watching the BBC for most of my adult life. I was also watching the BBC for years after Trump came into the presidency in 2016 and I observed the BBC's highly political reaction to it (when they are paid to be impartial).

I also watched the clip via other media and have followed the case.

Yes, I think I'm entitled to have a view on this just as much as you are.

2 The media accross the board appears unsympathetic to Trump including comparable outlets like ITN and right(er) wing media like GB News. Why should the BBC be any different?

What kind of argument is that?

Because outlets with similar socially liberal views also don't like Trump, then that's an argument for joining the chorus? Blimey....seriously?

Also, you appear to be wrong to include GB News within this stance. To quote Grok:

'GB News has taken a strongly critical stance toward the BBC over the controversial editing of Donald Trump’s January 6, 2021, speech in a Panorama documentary (aired around late October 2024, just before the US election). It has portrayed the edit as deliberate or misleading manipulation rather than a mere error, highlighted it as evidence of anti-Trump/BBC bias, extensively covered the resulting scandal and Trump’s lawsuit, and frequently platformed criticism of the BBC.'


3 I say appears as mostly Trump creates his own "partiality". All the media outlets do is report his latest attack on allies, breaking of international treaties, proposing injecting disinfectant as a cure for COVID, engaging in wars as quid pro quo for political donations etc. He is the gift that keeps on giving. Do they not report?

Certainly they should, however in a restrained way considering their charter.
Not within the manner of a one way political stance.

4 You are partial against him.

I am a critic of Trump 2.0 certainly. However, I'm not being paid by the BBC and if I were in that job I think I could do a far better job of levelling out the arguments.

But the BBC doesn't employ people like me, it employs people within its socially liberal image.
And as such it's significantly unbalanced.

I have seen that since the BBC moved from being an organisation that could be described as 'conservative with a small c' back in the 70s/80s to an increasingly socially liberal one.....a change that I observed occurring at an ever increasing pace from the 90s (probably retirements and generational change and employment policy). Then the BBC as an institution doesn't take its charter seriously and now regards them as a kind of restriction and something to get around rather than a culture they should embody.
 
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My comments about the BBC ignore all the outside stuff like Saville. I am talking only about this broadcast and the BBC defence.

You are also ignoring the evidence of offenders who say they were incited by Trump to storm the Capitol and the totality of statements Trump made in broadcast and - more importantly - posts. Not just this speech.

The BBC did edit that in a way that distorted it's delivery (although query whether it genuinely changed the message of the speech as a whole to much of his base - I don't know). This justified the apology and decapitations at the top.

However Trump still needs to prove both falsehood and malice. The former is complicated but the latter would be prohibitively difficult as there wasn't any.

He has already reduced his claim from US billions to US millions as he had to adduce evidence of the financial loss he claimed.

There wasn't any.

Who makes an outrageously exaggerated claim but an extortionist seeking to oppress media outlets as he had done several times in the past.

From what I see, the media are whooping their support for the BBC over the Pond. Finally someone is standing up to him.

So why not you.
I don't need to stand up to him. It makes absolutely no difference what I think. The case simply won't work in the way you're describing here. You're being drawn into some kind of justice crusade against Trump. Which isn't going to work.
What's so hard to understand that the BBC did the edit, despite their own chief watchdog highlighting its inaccuracy and have now doubled down? Their own watchdog resigned due to not being listened too - apparently over several things. He has since whistleblown. Pretty sure you can look it up.
You're barking up the wrong tree completely. Trump will win the case and be awarded costs, but I suspect nominal damages. What tweets he sent are irrelevant to a case against the BBC and I'm pretty sure his lawyers and the judge will not have them admitted into the case. Everyone in the US makes extortionate claims. It's what they do. If they're rich and will get away with it. Once again, this is just because it's Trump. Which you're admitting. Social justice may work that way but the US legal system won't.
 
I don't need to stand up to him. It makes absolutely no difference what I think. The case simply won't work in the way you're describing here. You're being drawn into some kind of justice crusade against Trump. Which isn't going to work.
What's so hard to understand that the BBC did the edit, despite their own chief watchdog highlighting its inaccuracy and have now doubled down? Their own watchdog resigned due to not being listened too - apparently over several things. He has since whistleblown. Pretty sure you can look it up.
You're barking up the wrong tree completely. Trump will win the case and be awarded costs, but I suspect nominal damages. What tweets he sent are irrelevant to a case against the BBC and I'm pretty sure his lawyers and the judge will not have them admitted into the case. Everyone in the US makes extortionate claims. It's what they do. If they're rich and will get away with it. Once again, this is just because it's Trump. Which you're admitting. Social justice may work that way but the US legal system won't.
We'll see on the outcome.

But we are both repeating ourselves on certain points and stunned the other is not accepting them.

Thus, I completely agree your points about the edit, the cover up, the socially liberal bias (Stirling that one's for you), even the innate bias of that broadcast.

However, I believe you (and Stirling) conflate this obviously poor journalism with genuine defamation. And given the various other comments you both make that demonstrates your antipathy to the Corporation, it also seems fair to suggest that your opinions are at least partly informed by that.

It is not and never was defamation in the sense understood over there.

If over here, it would be a matter for the media watchdog (whatever they are now called) not the courts. A fine and a broadcasted retraction.

Fact. People stating on oath they saw the broadcasts (plural!), read the truth media posts and acted on them. Case closed.

But if insufficient, the BBC have subpoenad his family and closest people around him to properly examine the President's intentions when he made these speeches and posts.

Malice. Unconscious bias and even a deliberate edit to make a point is way short of the bar to leap for Trump to prove malice.

And for the last time, drop the point about a crusade. They are DEFENDING this claim. Trump has the carriage of the matter. Unless the BBC surrenders and pay him off all they can do is continue to defend.

Unless you are suggesting they should have admitted the claim and paid him US 10 billion? Aggressively defending the claim has already reduced it to US a few million. At least commercially the defence has been justified to date.

Trump will not want this evidence aired in public (not least as it can be used in criminal prosecution in a couple of years). They are already lining him up for massive tax fraud and insider dealings on an eye watering scale. He will also not want his family dragged through this. I would be amazed if he doesn't withdraw the claim on confidential terms I.e each party pays their own costs and he then makes some bollox statement that he got what he really wanted leaving us all to guess what actually happened.
 
Trump will not want this evidence aired in public (not least as it can be used in criminal prosecution in a couple of years). ...... He will also not want his family dragged through this. I would be amazed if he doesn't withdraw the claim on confidential terms
do not be surprised if the Liberal-Left have the dirt on everybody. Its always been part of the commie playbook. There is absolutely no way i believe Pope Francis was that far to the Left, Not in real life. Somebody had his nuts in a vice-grips.
 
Personally I do think Trump should win his case, as media organisations should be very careful in what they put before millions of people and not edit material to better fit narratives.

However, I also agree that the amount asked for is ridiculous and shouldn't come to anything like it.

Enough to make a point to discourage, and reward Trump for taking a stand on it, but no more. Courts should not be in the manner of ruining businesses, in a capitalist economy where that should be the public's choice (which with the BBC is another discussion).
 
95% of these cases are settled out of court - not for huge sums. Instead the BBC decides it needs a trial to prove that they were right all along? Consider that - it's the epitome of wasting your money on a lost cause. Trump could have told his friends and family that he was trying to start a riot, a rebellion even. Totally irrelevant to this case. It's just making it pointlessly more expensive. It's vexatious legalese tactics - which the judge will not fall for.
The BBC single-handedly taking down Trump with their truth telling. That's not laughable? What is? It's literally f***ing crazy; at the very least as crazy as Trump.
 
I've put a left wing and a neutral source here, despite emotional responses - how does this look in a legal case? No right wing sources as I could understand them being ignored.


 
Like all but a handful of people in Florida I did not watch that programme to know if sufficient balance was shown.

Did you?

You didn't have to intend to cause the insurrection. Reckless is enough. Trump is more than aware of his gun toting paranoid support and the inevitable reaction to his various statements.

Emphasis on various. It was not just this speech was it? Other speeches and various social media posts that millions read and many believed without question.

Especially his gun toting paranoid support.

There is only so far you (and AS) can take your support for Trump and hatred of the BBC.
Well said. The programme was never about Trump. It was about what motivated that mob to storm the Capitol Building and Trump most certainly played a big role in that. The only thing wrong was that the two brief clips that were shown were not contemporaneous and there was an editing mistake made that failed to make that clear. For which apologies were made and two very senior staff members lost their jobs. The underlying story that was told was nevertheless true.

There was no defamation of Trump at all, deliberate or accidental. Only imagined.
 
95% of these cases are settled out of court - not for huge sums. Instead the BBC decides it needs a trial to prove that they were right all along? Consider that - it's the epitome of wasting your money on a lost cause. Trump could have told his friends and family that he was trying to start a riot, a rebellion even. Totally irrelevant to this case. It's just making it pointlessly more expensive. It's vexatious legalese tactics - which the judge will not fall for.
The BBC single-handedly taking down Trump with their truth telling. That's not laughable? What is? It's literally f***ing crazy; at the very least as crazy as Trump.
Trump only wants the attention and publicity! That’s all he ever wants in cases like this. It enables him to divert attention away from some of the other stupid stuff he does, winds up his base and enables him to criticise the legacy media he so despises.
 

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