Sage is sage

RubinsCube said:
Against Fulham we played with two deeper lying midfielders in Timber and Wharton (I loathe the term "sixes" - isn't a #6 a centre back or am I showing my age?)

Sage commented after the win that in the first half especially they didn't prove to be too effective. I think the context he had was ineffective with the ball.

But it looks that way to me without the ball as well - we are getting bypassed too easily in open play. The back three are exposed both centrally and out wide (eg Fulham's second goal when Richards got rolled in the build up. It is easy to point the finger at him but why was he so far out of position? Seems to me he got pulled out of position because wingback and the deeper lying central midfielders had been bypassed or were themselves out of position).
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No you're correct. The sweeper to be precise!
 
Sage knows our weaknesses and he is figuring out the best solution or the right combination defensively. With Guehi, Munoz and Max going in quick succession there was never going to be a quick easy fix.

The manager might just know what he is doing and how to handle the conundrum, let’s give it time and see where we are? OG flauncing off might not be the worst thing to happen to us?
 
I listened to the commentary on the club website last night and watched the highlights this morning. Pleased that JSL scored a brace - good headers too. Kamada's goal was a classic.

From what I heard and saw briefly this morning it would appear we've got some very solid new talent in the squad. And a manager who's got a grip on things. I am heartened by that. We'll be OK lads.
 
The only thing that really worries me about Sage is his desire for us to play out from the back when, quite frankly, we're not very good at it(and never have been). I understand the benefits, but as 'boro showed last night, it's no difficult to pressure us into a mistake.

I get the benefits of this approach, but have never understood why we persist with it when it clearly isn't working. A simple tactic to ease the pressure is to occasionally go long, which should deter the oppo from always pressuring quite so much, and may give us more time to feck around in our own 3rd. but it's about a balancing act - and having players available who are in a position to receive the ball both long and short to introduce doubt into the opposition.
I haven't seen the full 'boro game yet, but have read somewhere that we did start going longer in the 2nd half (the highlights don't show this), so if this is true, then it at least eases my worries a little. Is this true? And we did put together some nicer full pitch passing moves in the 2nd half(i.e. the Hughes chance) - perhaps this was the reason?
 
It was chaotic the whole game. Thankfully the defence was actually decent. We seem very easy to cut through and very lightweight in midfield. Could easily have been 3-0 the other way.
I would play these three centre backs on Saturday.
 
CrazyBadger said:
The only thing that really worries me about Sage is his desire for us to play out from the back when, quite frankly, we're not very good at it(and never have been). I understand the benefits, but as 'boro showed last night, it's no difficult to pressure us into a mistake.

I get the benefits of this approach, but have never understood why we persist with it when it clearly isn't working. A simple tactic to ease the pressure is to occasionally go long, which should deter the oppo from always pressuring quite so much, and may give us more time to feck around in our own 3rd. but it's about a balancing act - and having players available who are in a position to receive the ball both long and short to introduce doubt into the opposition.
I haven't seen the full 'boro game yet, but have read somewhere that we did start going longer in the 2nd half (the highlights don't show this), so if this is true, then it at least eases my worries a little. Is this true? And we did put together some nicer full pitch passing moves in the 2nd half(i.e. the Hughes chance) - perhaps this was the reason?
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I suspect some will be to practice it. But we no need to realise when we are getting in to trouble.

There was one time I remember from last night where we were pressed hard on the right, Tomi passed back to Walter, who took a little too long, and then pinged it hard into Ahanor, who was running back to goal marked, who had no option to do the same to Chilwell who just tried to clip it on and we lost it. It was clear that when Walter got it we had 'lost' and he should have gone long. But instead he compounded the pressure.

So there will be a little bit of figuring out what are sensible passes/appropriate risks, and when the time has come to just launch it
 
MrRobbo said:
I suspect some will be to practice it. But we no need to realise when we are getting in to trouble.

There was one time I remember from last night where we were pressed hard on the right, Tomi passed back to Walter, who took a little too long, and then pinged it hard into Ahanor, who was running back to goal marked, who had no option to do the same to Chilwell who just tried to clip it on and we lost it. It was clear that when Walter got it we had 'lost' and he should have gone long. But instead he compounded the pressure.

So there will be a little bit of figuring out what are sensible passes/appropriate risks, and when the time has come to just launch it
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Pierre seems equally bewildered about our failure to play out from the back - "we are able to play like this so sometimes I don't understand why we don't do it so much"

My take is that it is working in training - but putting it together in the heat of a game is a different matter. And so many new players make that even more difficult.

But if we can reliably play that well and consistently beat the press we have the players to exploit the space and it would be great to watch. But could be a steep and painful learning curve in the premier league until the players bed in and a regular first 11 is established.

 
MrRobbo said:
I suspect some will be to practice it. But we no need to realise when we are getting in to trouble.

There was one time I remember from last night where we were pressed hard on the right, Tomi passed back to Walter, who took a little too long, and then pinged it hard into Ahanor, who was running back to goal marked, who had no option to do the same to Chilwell who just tried to clip it on and we lost it. It was clear that when Walter got it we had 'lost' and he should have gone long. But instead he compounded the pressure.

So there will be a little bit of figuring out what are sensible passes/appropriate risks, and when the time has come to just launch it
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That's exactly what I mean - Sage has directed us to play out, so Benitez wants to follow those directions. Just think we should err on safety and start long - then slowly work up to passing out from the back. Teams know now we're gonna try it, and it's easy to press us. In a few weeks time, hopefully we've improved enough to start it from the off - and then choose when we go long, and when we play out.

I guess it's a positive mental attitude thing - rather than a defeatest 'this isn't gonna work' attitude.
 
MarkA333 said:
At the end of the day, Glasner won us three trophies and I as a palace fan for 52 years since the age of 10 having been through decades of pain, am delighted about that. However, as you say Glasner had a certain ability to throw his toys out of the pram and I really think that harms the team, the spirit of the team too. Hopefully Sage will be successful. In the first place avoiding relegation, everything else is a bonus this season.
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If the 'borough game was anything to go by, after a dismal start, we settled down and I saw a considerable number of very exciting moves that led to constant attacks and three very well made goals. My mood has risen considerably
 
CrazyBadger said:
That's exactly what I mean - Sage has directed us to play out, so Benitez wants to follow those directions. Just think we should err on safety and start long - then slowly work up to passing out from the back. Teams know now we're gonna try it, and it's easy to press us. In a few weeks time, hopefully we've improved enough to start it from the off - and then choose when we go long, and when we play out.

I guess it's a positive mental attitude thing - rather than a defeatest 'this isn't gonna work' attitude.
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TBF i think Benitez was a big issue with trying to pass out.

Often took 3 touches when 1 or 2 would have done. And often pinged it into someone who was in trouble.

We'll figure it out.....hopefully
 
MrRobbo said:
TBF i think Benitez was a big issue with trying to pass out.

Often took 3 touches when 1 or 2 would have done. And often pinged it into someone who was in trouble.

We'll figure it out.....hopefully
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He's still a decent keeper though. Not much gets past him. It was a bit of a concern when he wanted out. In my opinion, Matthews was not really an option. I like Goodman but don't seem to hear much recently. Thought Whitworth was good but too short. We sold him for probably next to nothing. He was actually pretty good, shame about the height.
 
CrazyBadger said:
The only thing that really worries me about Sage is his desire for us to play out from the back when, quite frankly, we're not very good at it(and never have been). I understand the benefits, but as 'boro showed last night, it's no difficult to pressure us into a mistake.

I get the benefits of this approach, but have never understood why we persist with it when it clearly isn't working. A simple tactic to ease the pressure is to occasionally go long, which should deter the oppo from always pressuring quite so much, and may give us more time to feck around in our own 3rd. but it's about a balancing act - and having players available who are in a position to receive the ball both long and short to introduce doubt into the opposition.
I haven't seen the full 'boro game yet, but have read somewhere that we did start going longer in the 2nd half (the highlights don't show this), so if this is true, then it at least eases my worries a little. Is this true? And we did put together some nicer full pitch passing moves in the 2nd half(i.e. the Hughes chance) - perhaps this was the reason?
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After the first 15-20 minutes Benitez started launching it long but against a PL team we would have been down by then. Luckily Larsen did compete well for the ball upfront but it was against Championship defenders
We have got away with it the past couple of games but that can't last the way we are playing. Wharton really has to up his game. I can't see Tuchel picking him for the next England squad with players like Garner, King and Scott now competing with him
 
pssguy said:
After the first 15-20 minutes Benitez started launching it long but against a PL team we would have been down by then. Luckily Larsen did compete well for the ball upfront but it was against Championship defenders
We have got away with it the past couple of games but that can't last the way we are playing. Wharton really has to up his game. I can't see Tuchel picking him for the next England squad with players like Garner, King and Scott now competing with him
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It looks like Sage is relatively flexible and, where it's pretty clear he wants to play out from the back, he was willing to change when it wasn't working. Now, I'm not for one moment saying our previous managers were ever a bit stubborn and inflexible. Not at all.
 
ASCPFC said:
He's still a decent keeper though. Not much gets past him. It was a bit of a concern when he wanted out. In my opinion, Matthews was not really an option. I like Goodman but don't seem to hear much recently. Thought Whitworth was good but too short. We sold him for probably next to nothing. He was actually pretty good, shame about the height.
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He's out on loan at Dundee.
 
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