Although I think its fair to say that since the academy has progressed in recent years we have significantly more young players out on loan than ever before, only time will tell if any of those make it back to take up places on the first team bench / team -
Romaine Esse
- Topic starter Living In Hope
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cryrst
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Eze did frequently 😳
Putting it crudely, the academy just needs to keep its head above water season-on-season, waiting for the next T Mitchel.
The odd sale here and there will help it become self sufficient.
I'm going to do a Lanzo and make some bold predictions.
I'm doubtful Canvot, Pino or Esse will have significant Palace careers.
I don't think I've ever seen Canvot jump or win a header, an important attribute for a central defender.He stands off players and gives opponents too much space and has a mistake in him every game.
I don't think Esse is a Premier League player and he continually makes wrong choices in terms of his movement and delivery
Pino looks to have talent, but does not look like a left sided front 3 player which is possibly the only slot for him, at least under Glasner.
I anticipate people on here will tell me I'm talking rubbish, that it's too early to make a judgement, that I'm not being a proper supporter.
In response I would say it's an honest opinion and I genuinely hope that I am wrong in all 3 cases.
I recall seeing a young Guehi, Eze, Olise and Wharton in their early days and in each case seeing they had something special.
I have not had that feeling about the ones that I have mentioned and I don't see it as a valid comparison to refer to e.g JPM and Kamada who took a while to get going for different reasons.
Get your tin hat ready, i agree that the three you mentioned will never make it under OG, Pino is a Spanish international, a line hugging right winger, you mentioned him as a RWB, it is probably his only position in OGs line up, Esse i think will be a good Premier league player, on the right of a 4-2-3-1 set up, Canvot is just crap.
According to Glasner he willfully ignored instructions when subbed on at Anfield and pretty much did his own thing. Therefore he deserved to be hauled back off again and deserved criticism.
But I agree, he is young. We all thought we knew best when we were younger. Question is will he learn from his mistakes?
Time will tell.
TheBigToePunt
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I think you are spot on, especially the bit in bold. As much as Guehi, Eze, Olise and Wharton all had (and still do have in the latter case) much to improve, it is/was generally a case of consistency from game to game, and especially throughout a game. The quality and awareness was always evident.
In the beginning both Eze and Olise would do something top drawer, but then disappear from the game for a period. They were never erratic, or random, they just couldn't sustain their presence in the game.
Nobody ever used that old line about them, that the defender can't know what they will do next, as they don't know themselves. That is often code for 'erratic and lacking in quality'. I think it could be used for Esse at the moment, and for Uche, just like it could be used for Franca.
TheBigToePunt
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Funny, I'd say Canvot is the more promising of the three. You need to possess quality wherever you play of course but, to my mind, whilst an attacking player either has that innate higher level of awareness and class, or they don't, being a decent defender is a lot to do with learning the game, your job, systems etc.
A defender can be hit and miss at a young age but if they are able to recognise what errors they have made and avoid them next time, they have a good chance to do better. Keep going that way and you become decent, and then maybe better still. A lot of centre backs are better at 30 than 20.
Canvot has a lot of the ingredients, though they are very raw. His positioning and decision making is dicey, but I'd expect that. A lot of winning headers is to do with start position, footwork, reading the attack in time etc. It can be improved upon through learning, albeit sometimes the hard way and over a long time. I'd not rush to bin him at all, based on what I have seen, though I think we will need another senior centre back when Guehi goes. Canvot can't step into his shoes.
Started two Prem games. Two clean sheets and did well in both games particularly the Brighton one. He's obviously raw and still a lot to learn. But he's 19 FFS. Have a bit of patience.
dreamwaverider
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I totally agree with all your comments. I find I can normally see what a new player is like either before they have joined us or in their first few games for us. I reckon most fans are wishful thinkers and far too optimistic about a player's future when truth is they are just not good enough in many cases.
Olise, Eze, Wharton, Guehi, Lacroix, Munoz, all immediately very special, then current players, Hughes, Lerma, Kamada, Mitchell, Mateta, Richards, all shine some or most of the time, right from the off. There are others too.
Rak Saki never quite got there and current others looking like that. I haven't seen any in the wings with the X factor.
Vierra reckoned 2% of academy players would make it into pro football. Probably slightly optimistic.
All a bit depressing, but pro football is ruthless. I reckon you can always tell deep down when a star arrives.
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23m is a lot to have a prospect that might work, more than Lacroix and Richards and the same as Guehi.
Esse I'd agree. He's not a type of player that does well in the prem nowadays. And he also doesn't have the grit that Wilf had. Think upper middle Championship will be his ceiling.
Canvot, I completely disagree. He's very different to Guehi, and Lacroix. Given the press about his retirement he almost reminds me of Mamadou Sakho. Absolute brick sh1thouse. I take the point about the mistakes and some instances where he needs to be more dominent really, but no reason he cant get there.
Pino, I'm on the fence with. Very tidy, technical footballer. Really intelligent, but maybe lacks raw pace and a killer instinct. I do still think there is a player in there. And with a bit more time getting used to the prem, and a CF who is more on form might get the best out of him.
The team is so bad at the moment its hard to judge some of the individuals too harshly.
Inquisitive Aquila
Member
I think the major hurdle for both Canvot and Pino is they have moved to a new country, it does take a while to settle in. That does not mean they will acclimatise eventually after all Valerien Ismael never looked like settling for us but ended up going to Germany and winning the Bundesliga and cup double twice with different teams.
23m euros. Yes it's not cheap but not much is in football these days. The price of potential has sky rocketed in recent years, mainly thanks to teams like Chelsea inflating the market.
Just had a look, Canvot is the 100th most expensive Premier League defender transfer. Have a scan through some of the absolute dross that cost more than him.
Premier League - Transfer records
The transfer record overview shows the highest grossing transfers of the Premier League. It also shows the new club and the transfer fee.
I'm not gonna be writing him off anytime soon. But happy for you to.
Time to put your money where you mouth is and state your predictions then on the current newbies we are discussing. If we get this Sherif guy in will he be a hit?
Maybe you're Dougie in disguise?
All fans (including me) think we know what we are talking about. There's a reason we have other jobs and aren't working in the football industry.
You'll probably reply well this is a forum and I'm giving my opinions, which of course we welcome, so it would be interesting to hear what you think.
Did you ever pass an opinion on Kamada last season when everyone else thought he was toilet and have now changed their assessment?
think your wrong about Canvot he his a 19yr old CB learning , Guehi made mistakes , CB dont start coming good until there 25 plus anyone that comes good before then play for big clubs , he will be hit and miss until then hopefully more hits than miss , yes its a hard pill to swallow but all clubs do it , remember CB play well into there 30s , so give the kid time to learn , changing a playing system for Esse he his not that good that would be madness
I hope I am wrong, but we seem to have made some bad choices in young players, Franca, Plange, Ebowei, Ahamada etc, there is nothing to be glad about for any player to fail, I think Esse will go all the way to the top, just with that piece of power and technique for Coventry against Stoke shows me he has got it, IMO a left footed Semenyo in a couple of years.
Plange, Ebowei are in a slightly different category for me. Feels like it was more capitalising on Derby being in a terrible position and picking up some bargains. We all know the purchases that feel so cheap it must be worth a go.
dreamwaverider
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The player I have seen that click bait reckon we want is the guy at Genk who plays in Munoz position. But i only saw him in highlights on You tube. He looked hot. Can't remember his name. Al something. Looks like a Munoz on steroids if that is possible.
Dont know anything about Sherif, sorry can't help. I will try and take a look.
Canvot has put in 2 motm performances in his time here, at 19 thats pretty decent for a cb,