Rock is Dead, Long Live Rock

[Spindle]

Sterling put up this post about the inability of black kids to even read or write

Post in topic 'Woke is alive and well'

Saturday at 12:41 AM

Seems like an honest well meaning teacher who is dismayed with what he's walked into.

It's the fault of the left's influence in education, the lowering of standards and expectations and the delivering of excuses for a lack of application and accountability.

They think they are being kind....when what it does is ruin futures and instead supplants it for attitudes of resentment and finger pointing at others.

But the old fashioned right wing who get demonised so much by these people would have never allowed this to happen.

Reading and writing are the basics.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2087615824630567024

• Stirlingsays

I said that I blame the rise of Rap music, then we kicked off

Sterling

I see it the other way around.

I think a culture/people creates the kind of music that represents it.

RAP music was/is essentially the expression of black male gangs....it developed off shoots (pun not intended) as you'd expect, but that's at its heart.

Me

Rap only became as big as it is because the labels ditched rock bands for rap in about 1999. Billy Corgan (Smashing Pumpkins) refers to this. It's not demand, there is a massive demand for rock music in the kids but they can't access it, I speak about rock music to kids frequently and they are into 80s / 90's bands as if they are their own, wearing Nirvana t shirts etc, but they don't have their own to listen to. Also, the rehearsal rooms are full of young bands, they just don't get anywhere.

It's the labels,

Sterling

I hear there's a story behind why they invested so much into it as well.

Badger

Isn't that a bit like minority sports complaining that they would be massive if only TV would show it (cart before horse).

I confess to be completely out of touch with today's music but I would argue that there has never been a better time for musicians to showcase their talents. My own brother has a rock and roll band and they have produced 2 professionally made albums on cds.

Surely if you are good enough people will find you social media / Spotify etc.

I have never liked rap but then I am not their target audience it's not their fault if they are successful and other genres aren't. I would imagine the key word in the "music business" is business.

Teddy

It's not hard to be out of touch with current music. I listened to this song. It had a saxophone on it but apart from that nothing comes to mind.

Demise of the monoculture: why so many have never heard UK’s record-breaking No 1 single

Sam Fender and Olivia Dean’s Rein Me In is longest-running No 1 single in UK chart history, and yet it seems to have passed many people by

www.theguardian.com

Badger

True but this becomes a matter of taste. To younger people someone is hot new and ground breaking. An older person might say it was derivative and so and so artist was doing the same years ago.

Back in the 19th century I wonder if people said "Beethoven yeah he's not all that hot, Mozart was better and younger" .

Teddy

I agree but its strange not to have heard of a song that's been no. 1 for nearly five months.

​

 

[Spindle]

In reply to Badger

Isn't that a bit like minority sports complaining that they would be massive if only TV would show it (cart before horse).

I confess to be completely out of touch with today's music but I would argue that there has never been a better time for musicians to showcase their talents. My own brother has a rock and roll band and they have produced 2 professionally made albums on cds.

Surely if you are good enough people will find you social media / Spotify etc.

I have never liked rap but then I am not their target audience it's not their fault if they are successful and other genres aren't. I would imagine the key word in the "music business" is business.

I don't think so. This isn't a change in style, like from glam rock to punk, this is a complete ditching of an entire genre in favour of solo "artists" that are cheap and easy to get, easy to promote, easy to manage, easy to profit from (IMO).

Look at how all of the festivals have been ruined with pop type acts, but to sell out they STILL need to get major acts from decades ago to perform. Reading and Leeds, RUINED, they started trying to get non rock involved into that, I cite "Daphne and Celeste" at Reading, an iconic moment of getting bottled off because nobody wanted that shite.

I was talking to a couple of co worker sin their 20s last week and their favourite bands were Guns and Roses, and Pearl Jam. They said there's nobody new, the last international band was Coldplay, an they weren't really rock either. So these youngsters, and also my 15 year old niece, are into Nirvana as if they have released today - there are just as many rock music fans as there ever were, the messages and feelings in the songs are beyond what rap can ever be, and it connects to them. A few years ago I was playing in one of the rehearsal studios in Bristol and it's packed with bands. There are about 24 studios and getting a booking can be a struggle, the place is full. People want to play rock, they love band music.

Rap is not music, it's a beat but it doesn't use instrumental skill whatsoever, hence the sampling for their hooks.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I write rock/pop has a hobby, a lot of people do.
I'll do something with it one day......A week before I kick the bucket.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Rap deserves its bad rap.

99 percent of it was horsesh1t.

Ememin or whatever his name was had a couple of tunes.

 

[Spindle]

Those good tunes are 90% of the time because a musician has put in a hook that works, and that's the bit you like. Rap is unrelatable to most listeners too in subject matter. How many listeners "connect" to the storyline of gangs, street violence and slang, whores, hatred and glorification of murder.

Rap encourages bad behaviour as 'cool', it also ruined black music which was fantastic.

 

[Spindle]

And for example, The King himself

Kirkby-in-Ashfield teen Elvis refuses to be rocked by school bullies

Lewis Goddard was mocked at school for his love of Elvis but now makes a living impersonating him.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[McAhuna]

There is a lot of dross Rap, but there is also good Rap out there, always has been.

Currently, the Conscious Rap scene is interesting

Lukas Lion is great

 

[McAhuna]

Youtube doesn't allow a lot of Conscious rap to be shared. You won't have a problem sharing Gangsta rap talking about murders though

Conscious Rap

 

[Spindle]

It's the same. The melody is identical, the tone identical, and there is no singing talent to it - once you master an accent you're there. And why are you picking this out? The actual difference isn't him, it's the BAND that is around him.

Rock rap works because of that, Rage Against The Machine, it is actual rock music, has different melodies and structures, and it's lyrically relatable.

 

[McAhuna]

It's the same. The melody is identical, the tone identical, and there is no singing talent to it - once you master an accent you're there. And why are you picking this out? The actual difference isn't him, it's the BAND that is around him.

Rock rap works because of that, Rage Against The Machine, it is actual rock music, has different melodies and structures, and it's lyrically relatable.

It is him. It is his lyrics and his poetry. Plus, he coordinated the band around his rap.

 

[McAhuna]

An all time Rap classic.

When it works, rap is one of the best genres

 

[ASCPFC]

Rap deserves its bad rap.

99 percent of it was horsesh1t.

Ememin or whatever his name was had a couple of tunes.

Original stuff like Ice Tea and Dre is actually a lot better than stuff like Eminem. Which is just for white folks really. The point of white people or black people being targeted by the music tends to come from what tunes they use to mix with it. Hence, with Eminem it's mixed with 80s and 90s soft pop music. Whereas you'll actually get rock music mixed into the original stuff. Weirdly enough, considering the thread.
I find a lot of it is to do with the music mixed in the background.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

Rock died after album sales became unimportant for the survival of an artist.

Today its like the bbc ..... the money flows even when nobody wants to consume the product, which is mostly shyte anyway.

An artists Success today comes from " getting the nod" from the media companies. Even if their music is shyte.

That is why every supermarket/disco/ kids party/ pub.... plays 1980s music.

 

[Mr Palaceman]

Sterling put up this post about the inability of black kids to even read or write

Post in topic 'Woke is alive and well'

Saturday at 12:41 AM

Seems like an honest well meaning teacher who is dismayed with what he's walked into.

It's the fault of the left's influence in education, the lowering of standards and expectations and the delivering of excuses for a lack of application and accountability.

They think they are being kind....when what it does is ruin futures and instead supplants it for attitudes of resentment and finger pointing at others.

But the old fashioned right wing who get demonised so much by these people would have never allowed this to happen.

Reading and writing are the basics.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2087615824630567024

• Stirlingsays

I said that I blame the rise of Rap music, then we kicked off

Sterling


Me


Sterling


Badger


Teddy


Badger


Teddy

​

"RAP music was/is essentially the expression of black male gangs....it developed off shoots (pun not intended) as you'd expect, but that's at its heart".
"Rap only became as big as it is because the labels ditched rock bands for rap in about 1999".
Both these statements are totally incorrect... Early Hip Hop was nothing to do with Gangs..

The first Popular Rap song was "Rappers Delight" Done over a sample of Good Times by Chic of Nile Rodgers fame. Nothing to do with gangs.

Rap and Hip Hop are too different things, Rap being rhyming over a track and Hip Hop being a cultural movement and expression with "peace, unity, and having fun" at its heart and incorporated, Music, Art and fashion. If you listen to early Hip Hop it had nothing to do with gangs.

Early Hip Hop in this country had similar roots. The first UK rapper to appear on T.V. actually appeared on Blue Peter and the first artists also had a very different message to what came later. Artists Like MC Mell'O with tracks like "Open Up Your Mind" and "Subtraction".

Gangster Rap came later when Major labels pumped millions in rap music to promote a very different message of gangs and drugs and gave rise to Groups like NWA .. They largely succeeded in subverting the message and where able to sell millions of records to young white children pushing their version of Hip Hop into the mainstream.

I was never into Hip Hop in its early days being into to soul, pop, reggae a bit of punk and rock, pretty much most music I saw on Top of the Pops but my knowledge of early Hip Hop came about as I know a lot of those early artists to this day and gangs just didn't come into it..

 

[Stirlingsays]

Original stuff like Ice Tea and Dre is actually a lot better than stuff like Eminem. Which is just for white folks really. The point of white people or black people being targeted by the music tends to come from what tunes they use to mix with it. Hence, with Eminem it's mixed with 80s and 90s soft pop music. Whereas you'll actually get rock music mixed into the original stuff. Weirdly enough, considering the thread.
I find a lot of it is to do with the music mixed in the background.

It's true....I never really moved much past the 60s and early 80s.

A dinosaur.

 

[Eagleman13]

Rock is dead . . . nah. Last Thursday(12th) Deep Purple performed at Jones Beach in New York, remaining members were Ian Paice(drums), Roger Glover(bass) & Ian Gillan(vocals). At the encore stage, Ritchie Blackmore joined the band for 'Smoke On The Water'. These guys are between 78 - 81 years of age . . .

Watch Ritchie Blackmore perform with Deep Purple for first time in 33 years

Ritchie Blackmore joined Deep Purple on stage for the first time in more than three decades last night in New York

www.nme.com

 

[Stirlingsays]

Rock is dead . . . nah. Last Thursday(12th) Deep Purple performed at Jones Beach in New York, remaining members were Ian Paice(drums), Roger Glover(bass) & Ian Gillan(vocals). At the encore stage, Ritchie Blackmore joined the band for 'Smoke On The Water'. These guys are between 78 - 81 years of age . . .

Watch Ritchie Blackmore perform with Deep Purple for first time in 33 years

Ritchie Blackmore joined Deep Purple on stage for the first time in more than three decades last night in New York

www.nme.com

It might not be dead.

But they look like they aren't far off life support.

I saw a clip of Rod Stewart the other day in concert with an oxygen tank on stage to help him through the songs.

Kind of 'Do you think I'm fainting'.

 

[ASCPFC]

Rock is dead . . . nah. Last Thursday(12th) Deep Purple performed at Jones Beach in New York, remaining members were Ian Paice(drums), Roger Glover(bass) & Ian Gillan(vocals). At the encore stage, Ritchie Blackmore joined the band for 'Smoke On The Water'. These guys are between 78 - 81 years of age . . .

Watch Ritchie Blackmore perform with Deep Purple for first time in 33 years

Ritchie Blackmore joined Deep Purple on stage for the first time in more than three decades last night in New York

www.nme.com

Rick does seem to be making money from live gigs. The amount of comebacks tells me the cost of living is getting the old rockers too.

 

[ASCPFC]

It's true....I never really moved much past the 60s and early 80s.

A dinosaur.

A couple for you. One from the eighties, one from the millennium.

 

[Spindle]

An all time Rap classic.

When it works, rap is one of the best genres

Totally off topic. And these are edge cases, aren't they. I also don't think it's all that good anyway.

As for the rapper, just reminds me of Michael Jackson rehearsing with a new guitarist and she gets a lecture on song structure from him because she played the wrong part. All the comments were about his musical genius - FO, he is the singer and knows only the song structure, the musicians work out EVERYTHING ELSE. Do you think he knows what key it's in?