Reform

[georgenorman]

What bothers me from your post is if a clearly intelligent person is sold on this paranoid guff, what chance the army of bottom feeders who vote Reform?

I understood Zak is a bottom feeder?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Not only am I going for that but it is screamingly obvious.

If you asked the dumb ass what it meant he will say the same.

When asked whether it was wise in this historic matrix his eyes will swivel his mouth will gape and for some minutes he will emit a low humming vowel sound.

You must have bought in to reforms full on paranoia to think he wore this shirt in the genuine hope that someone would actually cut Farages head off. This is a "bloke" who would cry himself to sleep if he trood on an ant.

What bothers me from your post is if a clearly intelligent person is sold on this paranoid guff, what chance the army of bottom feeders who vote Reform?

Oh for crying out loud!

 

[silvertop]

I understood Zak is a bottom feeder?

Different sides.

Same coin.

 

[silvertop]

Oh for crying out loud!

That was my honest thoughts when you suggested that plastic sandel wearer numpty was advocating the murder of Farage.

A view so off beam from any reality you have to be immersed irreversibley deep in populist delusion as to even entertain it as a possibility.

If you are saying it was poorly judged and half witted then we agree.

 

[Stirlingsays]

That was my honest thoughts when you suggested that plastic sandel wearer numpty was advocating the murder of Farage.

A view so off beam from any reality you have to be immersed irreversibley deep in populist delusion as to even entertain it as a possibility.

If you are saying it was poorly judged and half witted then we agree.

My position is that in a normal society this would be the receiver of mild criticism and be called poor taste.

However, we are living in a world where the left have created and enforced hyperbolic standards, where everything is turned up to eleven (as the classic line goes)......So when the right get no benefit of the doubt why should the left?

It's a correct analysis that if Reform had done this on their twitter feed that people like Polanski would be doing his nut.....Why do the right always have to be the sensible ones in the room?

We are also living in a world where Ann Widdlecombe was murdered by an individual who hated Reform.

I don't blame them for being paranoid as not only has this murder happened but they regularly receive death threats. People get to throw crap at Farage and receive slaps on the wrist and it's all a bit of a joke......Well no....it's setting a trend that's dangerous.

Death threats should be taken seriously whether they are sent to Polanski or Farage or Burnham or anyone.....Most of them will be from wallies/nut jobs and attention seekers who won't do jack.....but there will also be a percent who would kill if given the opportunity.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

My position is that in a normal society this would be the receiver of mild criticism and be called poor taste.

However, we are living in a world where the left have created and enforced hyperbolic standards, where everything is turned up to eleven (as the classic line goes)......So when the right get no benefit of the doubt why should the left?

It's a correct analysis that if Reform had done this on their twitter feed that people like Polanski would be doing his nut.....Why do the right always have to be the sensible ones in the room?

We are also living in a world where Ann Widdlecombe was murdered by an individual who hated Reform.

I don't blame them for being paranoid as not only has this murder happened but they regularly receive death threats. People get to throw crap at Farage and receive slaps on the wrist and it's all a bit of a joke......Well no....it's setting a trend that's dangerous.

Death threats should be taken seriously whether they are sent to Polanski or Farage or Burnham or anyone.....Most of them will be from wallies/nut jobs and attention seekers who won't do jack.....but there will also be a percent who would kill if given the opportunity.

Because if your whole pitch is 'we're the sensible ones', you kind of have to demonstrate that for it to be believable. If your argument is that the left have normalised hyperbole, the answer obviously isn't to adopt the same standards when it suits you.

If you claim to be different, people will judge you by whether you behave differently.

 

[georgenorman]

Because if your whole pitch is 'we're the sensible ones', you kind of have to demonstrate that for it to be believable. If your argument is that the left have normalised hyperbole, the answer obviously isn't to adopt the same standards when it suits you.

If you claim to be different, people will judge you by whether you behave differently.

You merely have to follow the news to see it.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Because if your whole pitch is 'we're the sensible ones', you kind of have to demonstrate that for it to be believable.

Have you been living under a rock?

The start of the speech restrictions and laws that have harmed civil liberties in this country were introduced by Blair, then when the Tories went woke they themselves got into the act with the 'Online Safety Bill'.....Even the present Tory party still supports most of it.

Personally I'm a Restore guy, which is even more against this than Reform, so while I'd review it to see if anything was worth keeping.....pretty much all 'hate speech' legislation that wasn't death threats or libel would go into the bin.....All the imported woke crap gone.

If your argument is that the left have normalised hyperbole, the answer obviously isn't to adopt the same standards when it suits you.

An argument?

Since the left and to a lesser extent the Tories have restricted speech the British state has arrested more people for online posts than Russia, despite Britain having roughly half the population.

Why is the answer to treat the left better than they treat ourselves? So the left get to escalate and punish and sack people on our side but we don't do the same? Errrr....No, we can negotiate but the left don't get to live by standards but receive no negative consequences in return...they started the race to the bottom and unless they negotiate out of it on fair rules, then the bottom is where we are going.

Show we where on the left there was a strong argument against what happened to Lucy Connelly for example?

If you claim to be different, people will judge you by whether you behave differently.

Personally I am different, however I believe everyone connected to the decline of civil liberties in Britain, whether it's on the left or right needs to be punished.....Supporters of speech restrictions are far more common on the left and that's the reality.

They want to control the narratives and even at the moment are looking to lock out alternative voices like X for example.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Have you been living under a rock?

The start of the speech restrictions and laws that have harmed civil liberties in this country were introduced by Blair, then when the Tories went woke they themselves got into the act with the 'Online Safety Bill'.....Even the present Tory party still supports most of it.

Personally I'm a Restore guy, which is even more against this than Reform, so while I'd review it to see if anything was worth keeping.....pretty much all 'hate speech' legislation that wasn't death threats or libel would go into the bin.....All the imported woke crap gone.




An argument?

Since the left and to a lesser extent the Tories have restricted speech the British state has arrested more people for online posts than Russia, despite Britain having roughly half the population.

Why is the answer to treat the left better than they treat ourselves.

Show we where on the left there was a strong argument against what happened to Lucy Connelly for example?



Personally I am different, however I believe everyone connected to the decline of civil liberties in Britain, whether it's on the left or right needs to be punished.....Supporters of speech restrictions are far more common on the left and that's the reality.

They want to control the narratives and even at the moment are looking to lock out alternative voices like X for example.

If your position is that these laws and this rhetoric are wrong, then they should be wrong regardless of who's using them - that's what principles are.

Where on the right was there a strong argument against what happened to the various environmental protests groups?

The reality is everyone is happy to cheer these sort free speech infringements when it suits their side, and that childish tribalism is a huge part of why the laws and restrictions have managed to get as far as they have.

 

[Spindle]

Really?

A guillotine.....the quote 'making plans for Nigel'.

Lose your job?

Really? You're going with that?

I can only advise you to not buy any bridges offered to you.

The mental gymnastics is as extreme as when they equally use it to accuse others of racism, such as waving the flag of your nation in your nation

 

[Spindle]

Not only am I going for that but it is screamingly obvious.

If you asked the dumb ass what it meant he will say the same.

When asked whether it was wise in this historic matrix his eyes will swivel his mouth will gape and for some minutes he will emit a low humming vowel sound.

You must have bought in to reforms full on paranoia to think he wore this shirt in the genuine hope that someone would actually cut Farages head off. This is a "bloke" who would cry himself to sleep if he trood on an ant.

What bothers me from your post is if a clearly intelligent person is sold on this paranoid guff, what chance the army of bottom feeders who vote Reform?

9.5, 9.6, 9.5, 9.5, 9.6, 9.5

 

[Spindle]

That was my honest thoughts when you suggested that plastic sandel wearer numpty was advocating the murder of Farage.

A view so off beam from any reality you have to be immersed irreversibley deep in populist delusion as to even entertain it as a possibility.

If you are saying it was poorly judged and half witted then we agree.

Not as poorly judged as you are claiming. In what world does someone think about losing their job if they see a guillotine. If it was a gun would you think he was "getting fired"? We weren't born yesterday, "dog ate my homework" level of lying.

 

[Spindle]

Because if your whole pitch is 'we're the sensible ones', you kind of have to demonstrate that for it to be believable. If your argument is that the left have normalised hyperbole, the answer obviously isn't to adopt the same standards when it suits you.

If you claim to be different, people will judge you by whether you behave differently.

Except the reason to take it this seriously is because the left is packed full of gullible sky is falling idiots, losers and mental health cases so the likelihood of incitement is far far higher than with followers of Farage. If Reform posted similar it wouldn't be acted upon - and the fact that the left would actually call it out is precisely the same mentality that drives them to commit so many stupid petulant desperate and unhinged acts, and support those that do too.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Except the reason to take it this seriously is because the left is packed full of gullible sky is falling idiots, losers and mental health cases so the likelihood of incitement is far far higher than with followers of Farage. If Reform posted similar it wouldn't be acted upon - and the fact that the left would actually call it out is precisely the same mentality that drives them to commit so many stupid petulant desperate and unhinged acts, and support those that do too.

'its fine when we do it because the other side is worse' is not an argument for grown ups - you're just projecting tribal bullshit and declining to even try and maintain principles.

And as I've said, that is precisely the mindset that has allowed increasingly broad restrictions on speech and protest.

 

[Stirlingsays]

If your position is that these laws and this rhetoric are wrong, then they should be wrong regardless of who's using them - that's what principles are.

Sure.

Where on the right was there a strong argument against what happened to the various environmental protests groups?

Which cases are you referring to?

If you are referring to cases of criminal damage, blocking of roads or physical attacks that required hospitalization?

Otherwise what rights didn't the right defend? We support the right to protest peacefully, whatever your political position.....We aren't the guys who created the rules that allowed the Police to arrest a woman for praying to close to an abortion centre.

The reality is everyone is happy to cheer these sort free speech infringements when it suits their side, and that childish tribalism is a huge part of why the laws and restrictions have managed to get as far as they have.

No actually that's not true.

Maybe you've not experienced with British history, I don't know, but our free speech laws before Wilson in the 60s and then Blair in the 00s meant that British law explicitly protected the right of the individual to have opinions that went against the state or general consensus.

Social conservationism believes in much higher principles of free speech. For example, the Communist Party of Great Britain was allowed its headquarters openly in the centre of London.....An organisation dedicated to the overthrow of the British state.

To this day we have the free speech union, that has defended the free speech of people both on the right and on the left.......Left wing speech is under far less attack but there are cases where it's happened.

So no, it's not just tribalism.

 

[silvertop]

My position is that in a normal society this would be the receiver of mild criticism and be called poor taste.

However, we are living in a world where the left have created and enforced hyperbolic standards, where everything is turned up to eleven (as the classic line goes)......So when the right get no benefit of the doubt why should the left?

It's a correct analysis that if Reform had done this on their twitter feed that people like Polanski would be doing his nut.....Why do the right always have to be the sensible ones in the room?

We are also living in a world where Ann Widdlecombe was murdered by an individual who hated Reform.

I don't blame them for being paranoid as not only has this murder happened but they regularly receive death threats. People get to throw crap at Farage and receive slaps on the wrist and it's all a bit of a joke......Well no....it's setting a trend that's dangerous.

Death threats should be taken seriously whether they are sent to Polanski or Farage or Burnham or anyone.....Most of them will be from wallies/nut jobs and attention seekers who won't do jack.....but there will also be a percent who would kill if given the opportunity.

Absolutely. Which is why even the BBC are calling the Greens out for this.

But I stick by my point. If you told the supernaturally dim bloke wearing the t-shirt what you just said, his response would be half dribble and half D E R R R.

Polanski should know better. He now has to do a lot of back peddling. And it is not the first time he has casually liked a controversial post, is it?

 

[Stirlingsays]

The mental gymnastics is as extreme as when they equally use it to accuse others of racism, such as waving the flag of your nation in your nation

I think Silvertop is a good poster who has positions in both camps.

But certainly, the Hol has seen all the excesses of the far left....who, because they couldn't ban everyone they wanted, took their ball away and largely went home.

Now their chief representatives are a nudist landlord and Dan...the magical employer of nearly 100 people in a tax business....who thinks the economy is going to be fine.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Sure.



Which cases are you referring to?

If you are referring to cases of criminal damage, blocking of roads or physical attacks that required hospitalization?

Otherwise what rights didn't the right defend? We support the right to protest peacefully, whatever your political position.....We aren't the guys who created the rules that allowed the Police to arrest a woman for praying to close to an abortion centre.



No actually that's not true.

Maybe you've not experienced with British history, I don't know, but our free speech laws before Wilson in the 60s and then Blair in the 00s meant that British law explicitly protected the right of the individual to have opinions that went against the state or general consensus.

Social conservationism believes in much higher principles of free speech. For example, the Communist Party of Great Britain was allowed its headquarters openly in the centre of London.....An organisation dedicated to he overthrow to the British state.

To this day we have the free speech union, that has defended the free speech of people both on the right and on the left.......Left wing speech is under far less attack but there are cases where it's happened.

So no, it's not just tribalism.

The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 and the Public Order Act 2023, both of which were introduced largely in response to disruption by groups like Just Stop Oil and Insulate Britain - I don't remember too many on the right objecting. Quite the opposite.

What I'm suggesting is clearly true - Spindle has literally just made the argument 'it's fine when we do it, but not the left'. We're watching it happen in real time while you tell me it's not true because of the communist Party of Great Britain.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 and the Public Order Act 2023, both of which were introduced largely in response to disruption by groups like Just Stop Oil and Insulate Britain - I don't remember too many on the right objecting. Quite the opposite.

What I'm suggesting is clearly true - Spindle has literally just made the argument 'it's fine when we do it, but not the left'. We're watching it happen in real time while you tell me it's not true because of the communist Party of Great Britain.

Again, were not these groups causing criminal damage and costs, blocking roads and in some cases attacking people? That's not protesting....that's always been illegal as it should be......I remember the throwing paint stuff, put those people in jail, damaging planes and so on.

Now, I would question why we need new laws to deal with that.....I would want to know the reasoning behind these new laws.......I really would, so you might have a point there. I'm not aware of what is in these new laws.

You can take it from me, I most certainly object to attacks against peaceful protest, whatever the politics as that should be a protected part of the British legal tradition.

 

[silvertop]

Again, were not these groups causing criminal damage and costs, blocking roads and in some cases attacking people? That's not protesting....that's always been illegal as it should be......I remember the throwing paint stuff, put those people in jail, damaging planes and so on.

Now, I would question why we need new laws to deal with that.....I would want to know the reasoning behind these new laws.......I really would, so you might have a point there. I'm not aware of what is in these new laws.

You can take it from me, I most certainly object to attacks against peaceful protest, whatever the politics as that should be a protected part of the British legal tradition.

Political knee-jerk to show "something is being done".

Same as always.