Our most critical season ?

doombear said:
I think you're overreacting and perhaps forgetting just how many players' contracts or loans end this coming Summer, namely:
1. Mitchell
2. Lerma
3. Hughes
4. Kamada
5. Mateta
6. Disasi
7. Ahanor
8. Osorio
9 Richards
10. Guessand (if he hasn't already returned to Villa)

That's hardly going to leave us with a bloated squad next season.

Furthermore, I don't know if either Chilwell or Tomiyasu have more than a 1 year contract, so there's two more we ought lose in the Summer.

It seems to me that the club has done the right thing to have ensured we have good depth this season. I would hope the club and the manager will be aiming to go as far as possible in the Europa League given the financial rewards of winning it if that can be achieved. Ar the same time we must protect our PL status. IMO we can't do both with the kind of pared down squad you are suggesting.

Osorio is on loan with a view to a possible purchase. He needs time before we can form any judgement so it is far too early to write him off.

Other new players also need time. Unlike Man City we can't afford to buy Prem proven players whenever we choose.

As for,Mingueza, I reckon he'll get a good number of the minutes. We're already guaranteed a minimum of 49 games this season and even a reasonable run in the 3 cups could see that hit the mid 50s.
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I'm afraid I'm unconvinced!

Firstly, dealing with this season first and foremost, the point remains that we would seem to have a bigger squad but a weaker team. I can't see how that gets us further in Europe or higher in the league than a stronger but shallower first team.

Secondly, even if the club trims the squad next summer by letting a lot of the above players go (or they leave despite us wanting them to stay) that would surely just mean an even weaker team would be left behind? If the squad size is supposed to represent succession planning then I'm even more worried than I was!

I am not writing any of the current players off, but rather forming my view on what I can see the players to be capable of as things stand.

I think perhaps the club has had its fingers burnt by last January, both financially, but also generally. It seemed to me that they tried to react to the loss of senior players like Eze and (ultimately) Mateta not by buying cheaper hopefuls to develop, but by going for proven top flight players who could hit the ground running. They tried to make sure the team did not get any weaker. That's what Larsen and Johnson were supposed to be.

I wonder if the awful return from both made the club think 'Feck that, we're not doing that again' and instead they decided to speculate more on a wider number of players.

Of course we will always need to take a couple of lower-risk punts on potential, but personally I think it was a mistake to turn away from signing proven replacements for outgoing senior players, just because the two we went for flopped.
 
TheBigToePunt said:
I'm afraid I'm unconvinced!

Firstly, dealing with this season first and foremost, the point remains that we would seem to have a bigger squad but a weaker team. I can't see how that gets us further in Europe or higher in the league than a stronger but shallower first team.

Secondly, even if the club trims the squad next summer by letting a lot of the above players go (or they leave despite us wanting them to stay) that would surely just mean an even weaker team would be left behind? If the squad size is supposed to represent succession planning then I'm even more worried than I was!

I am not writing any of the current players off, but rather forming my view on what I can see the players to be capable of as things stand.

I think perhaps the club has had its fingers burnt by last January, both financially, but also generally. It seemed to me that they tried to react to the loss of senior players like Eze and (ultimately) Mateta not by buying cheaper hopefuls to develop, but by going for proven top flight players who could hit the ground running. They tried to make sure the team did not get any weaker. That's what Larsen and Johnson were supposed to be.

I wonder if the awful return from both made the club think 'Feck that, we're not doing that again' and instead they decided to speculate more on a wider number of players.

Of course we will always need to take a couple of lower-risk punts on potential, but personally I think it was a mistake to turn away from signing proven replacements for outgoing senior players, just because the two we went for flopped.
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I agree with you on this point. Take out Munoz, Lacroix, Guehi, Eze and in effect Sarr/Mateta so far this season and you will weaken most teams.

The flip side of that is we now have a situation where no one is undroppable. It did not feel like that last year and at times I felt some players did need more jeopardy in terms of their starting place to bring out the best in them.

So I think we are in choppy waters and in the midst of a rebuild. Whether the rebuild works or not we will find out this and/or next season. I think if we can successfully navigate the next two seasons it could be a new golden era after what we have seen the last 12 months.
 
MarkA333 said:
I hope that players like Chilwell, Minguez and maybe one or w/o of the young attackers get some game time in the various cup games. It seems likely that Mitchell won’t sign a new contract and will leave in January as Guehi did running down his contract. Mitchell has been wonderful and not said a word but he saw what Guehi did and will most likely follow suit.

And while we are at it, we can get rid of Larsson and Nketiah at the same time.

That should bring in about 60 million which hopefully we can re invest wisely this time.
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First of all it doesn't seem likely to me as the club are in talks to extend his deal and I read the other day Tyrick is open to staying if the offered terms are right. Secondly, if he did leave I am sure we are still entitled to some compensation as he is registered as a home grown player that we have produced.
 
est1905 said:
First of all it doesn't seem likely to me as the club are in talks to extend his deal and I read the other day Tyrick is open to staying if the offered terms are right. Secondly, if he did leave I am sure we are still entitled to some compensation as he is registered as a home grown player that we have produced.
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Didn’t he come through Brentford’s ranks though?
 
Haven't read all 6 pages, but this is the first I've heard of any squad issues/Sage under pressure. As far as I'm concerned we've had a decent start and our league position is not a true reflection of where we are.

Firstly, the transfer window being open during the start of the season is more unsettling for Palace than other clubs as everyone is always after our best players, which is bound to cause disruption. We were always going to lose at Everton and against City given the circumstances.

Great win at Fulham and a decent performance and draw at Elland Road. The Ipswich game was ruined by Disasi's rash challenge, but we battled very well with 10 men and might have won it had Khalili not missed a sitter. In between we've had two thumping cup wins against good opposition.

We are playing excellent attacking football and have at least two quality options in every position. Naturally, good players will have to sit on the bench, but that only increases competition in the squad. If Sage can handle that, I think we're in for a good season. He's a proven top manager and I think we'll keep improving as the season progresses.
 
TheBigToePunt said:
...

I am not writing any of the current players off, but rather forming my view on what I can see the players to be capable of as things stand.

I think perhaps the club has had its fingers burnt by last January, both financially, but also generally. It seemed to me that they tried to react to the loss of senior players like Eze and (ultimately) Mateta not by buying cheaper hopefuls to develop, but by going for proven top flight players who could hit the ground running. They tried to make sure the team did not get any weaker. That's what Larsen and Johnson were supposed to be.

I wonder if the awful return from both made the club think 'Feck that, we're not doing that again' and instead they decided to speculate more on a wider number of players.

Of course we will always need to take a couple of lower-risk punts on potential, but personally I think it was a mistake to turn away from signing proven replacements for outgoing senior players, just because the two we went for flopped.
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I suggest that the change in the player profile of purchases may be due not so much to the disappointment with the two January signings as with the financial fallout of those purchases given the two different Squad Cost Ratio regimes (SCR) the club has to operate under.

Whilst the PL year runs from July to June, that of UEFA, I believe, runs from January to December so although the January signings fall out of the current year's PL figures, they're still relevant as far as UEFA is concerned, and, as we know, UEFA's SCR is somewhat stricter than that of the PL. Consequently, whilst we raised £90m from sales in the Summer window and only spent £50m, there may well have been financial constraints on being able to spend more than that before the next window. Let's face it, how many PL proven players do you get for the £50m we spent on bringing in the Summer influx?

We brought in proven PL players cheaply in the form of Kamada, Chilwell, Tomiyasu and, on loan, Disasi (I don't count Guessand as PL proven). Also, we probably got the better of the swap deal with Everton given that McNeil has already done more than Johnson ever managed for us.

Bringing in Timber and Khalaili seems to be looking promising and Osorio and Gozo are for the future assuming the former shows enough promise this season to warrant paying £24m for him in the Summer.

As for Munoz, I think we'll find that he won't be the player this season that we enjoyed before his injury.
 
Buying a proven Premiership player is expensive, minimum £30 million, we spent more than that on Johnson, Nketiah and JSL. We tried and failed. Just as Spurs are trying and failing except spending multiples more. Football sometimes seems pointless when we and others are basically feeder clubs for the top 6. Even Newcastle are struggling. Spurs get 60,000 in every home game but can’t win a game. Even Man Utd are struggling in mid table. Aston Villa too. It’s a hard business this football game unless you are Arsenal, Man City or Liverpool. Even Chelsea manage to screw it up perennially.
 
est1905 said:
He did yes but was still an academy player when he signed for Palace. This is a subject I dont know much about but I'm told if a player even spends a few months in your academy he can be listed as a home grown player.
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Me neither, so I’ve learnt something new there, every days a school day 🤣
 
MarkA333 said:
Buying a proven Premiership player is expensive, minimum £30 million, we spent more than that on Johnson, Nketiah and JSL. We tried and failed. Just as Spurs are trying and failing except spending multiples more. Football sometimes seems pointless when we and others are basically feeder clubs for the top 6. Even Newcastle are struggling. Spurs get 60,000 in every home game but can’t win a game. Even Man Utd are struggling in mid table. Aston Villa too. It’s a hard business this football game unless you are Arsenal, Man City or Liverpool. Even Chelsea manage to screw it up perennially.
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There is indeed a premium on proven top flight experience in the premier league. And English players seem to attract a premium on top of that in some positions.

We have proven over the last 5-10 years that you can bring players in from other clubs' academies, from overseas or from the Championship and they can do really well. Just off the top of my head:

Milivojevic
Eze
Olise
Guehi
Lacroix
Munoz
Sarr (granted he had played in the premier league before but did not set it alight)
Guaita
Richards
Wharton
Mateta (after a long while)

Doubtless there are many more and I hope some of the recent signings go on to add themselves to the above list.

I'd rather we continued looking for gems with an established spine to the team. We are in a rebuild but we need stability and that established spine so we can unearth and nurture the next Wharton, the next Guehi and the next Eze.
 
Well having just read this thread I'm not sure whether I should feel distraught or elated.
All I do know is if we give Forest a really good game -even if we don't win by 3 goals - everyone on here will be very very happy and singing Pierre's praises - till the next game anyway !
 
Normally my glass is 99% empty....but Sage feels different, I cant explain it but I think weve struck gold, we've got a much better style of football and other than City, we've been unlucky with results (Everton, Ipswich, Leeds could have easily been 9 points) & Timber...what a signing!

Long way to go, but im excited for this season, he's getting the most out of everyone, not afraid to drop anyone and seems to demand the max from every single player, onwards & upwards !
 
Fanofzhiyi said:
A lot of rumours online parish is considering replacing Pierre sage, surely not true……is there something going on behind the scenes we do not know?

It’s been an ok start. The issue is defence but we did not replace Lacroix yet
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Yes we did. We replaced him three fold with Desasi, Honest and Tomiyasu. This imaginary replacement you speak of isn't coming I don't think...
 
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