Next manager poll

[grumpymort]

Frank de Boer started out well enough with Ajax, but had lost the last two seasons in an otherwise one-horse league before he left them. He then followed that with a failed spell at Inter Milan before joining us.

I was in a minority that was happy to give FDB more time than he got, and his initial appointment was exciting at the time, for pure name-recognition from his playing days... but he didn't have much of a managerial CV when he joined us.

Sage has just taken Lens, where the expectations are way less than Ajax's, to within a whisker away from PSG's league record, and to their first ever cup title. Basically making him the Oli Glasner of the Pas-de-Calais. Prior to that he turned Lyon around and secured for them European football.

Arguably Sage's experience, field of work, and CV is way above what FDB's was when he joined us.

No manager in that league had done what he did by winning 4 titles in a row and to claim it was only a 1 horse league is nonsense it may have appeared like that in his spell because they did so well for those 4 seasons.

He resigned from that job so he wasn't fired either.

The Inter job was never going to work they was doing signing the previous manager wanted and new ownership came in also he was trying to play a system they didn't like (This is same system he was trying at Palace and guess what system that is the very same one Glaz used and many other teams do now 3 at the back)

Sage got fired from Lyon and he had the one good season with Lens coming second in a league which really is a 1 horse race but it was good he did win a cup but that is all he has done.

So to to claim he has better CV over FDB is madness he doesnt.

Amorim even has a far better CV.

Will Sage do well at Palace only time will tell. (I hope so but I would feel same with whoever we get)

 

[ASCPFC]

Is Sage's Uber here yet?

 

[PatrickA]

The dialogue between the club and Sage must be interesting.

He would be entitled to point out that the club has lost it's best defender (Guehi), it's most threatening attacking player(Eze) and may well lose it's most fliud midfield player (Kamada) and most reliable goalscorer in recent seasons (Mateta).

These are/were key and proven players and the squad is/will be weaker without them.
Surely this is beyond dispute.

In a way you are in your most powerful negotiating position when the club wants you to join as manager so now is the time to get guarantees about getting quality players in who are ready to hit the ground running.

Some might argue Canvot has replaced Guehi, Pino has replaced Eze and that Larsen will replace Mateta.
To me that's a stretch, and while hopefully they may go some way to doing this in time, at the moment they are frankly not at the same level.

 

[chris123]

No manager in that league had done what he did by winning 4 titles in a row and to claim it was only a 1 horse league is nonsense it may have appeared like that in his spell because they did so well for those 4 seasons.

He resigned from that job so he wasn't fired either.

The Inter job was never going to work they was doing signing the previous manager wanted and new ownership came in also he was trying to play a system they didn't like (This is same system he was trying at Palace and guess what system that is the very same one Glaz used and many other teams do now 3 at the back)

Sage got fired from Lyon and he had the one good season with Lens coming second in a league which really is a 1 horse race but it was good he did win a cup but that is all he has done.

So to to claim he has better CV over FDB is madness he doesnt.

Amorim even has a far better CV.

Will Sage do well at Palace only time will tell. (I hope so but I would feel same with whoever we get)

Well second to the European champions and 9 points ahead of 3rd and won the cup.

 

[dreamwaverider]

Fair enough. I just think at 24 the lad is hardly the Championship's new 'bright young thing'. He has been around a while and only last season started playing to the form that has got him noticed. I'm also told (might not be true) that he only has a year left on his contract. If that is true then I'm sorry but £25m is pushing it.

Can he score goals?

 

[TheBigToePunt]

The dialogue between the club and Sage must be interesting.

He would be entitled to point out that the club has lost it's best defender (Guehi), it's most threatening attacking player(Eze) and may well lose it's most fliud midfield player (Kamada) and most reliable goalscorer in recent seasons (Mateta).

These are/were key and proven players and the squad is/will be weaker without them.
Surely this is beyond dispute.

In a way you are in your most powerful negotiating position when the club wants you to join as manager so now is the time to get guarantees about getting quality players in who are ready to hit the ground running.

Some might argue Canvot has replaced Guehi, Pino has replaced Eze and that Larsen will replace Mateta.
To me that's a stretch, and while hopefully they may go some way to doing this in time, at the moment they are frankly not at the same level.

He may well make these points, but unless he's bringing £200m of his own money to spend he'll have to make do with what the club can afford, like all his predecessors.

 

[PatrickA]

He may well make these points, but unless he's bringing £200m of his own money to spend he'll have to make do with what the club can afford, like all his predecessors.

Understood, but it's for Sage to push as Allardyce did bringing in Sakho, PVA, Luka and Schlupp in one window.
I doubt this would have happened without Allardyce pushing for it.
The real crime is to aim low and still miss.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Understood, but it's for Sage to push as Allardyce did bringing in Sakho, PVA, Luka and Schlupp in one window.
I doubt this would have happened without Allardyce pushing for it.
The real crime is to aim low and still miss.

Allardyce definitely did push for players he wanted, as did Pulis before him. Both may argue they were right to do so as they kept us up, but neither manager stayed around more than half a season after getting their signings delivered to them. They both f***ed off, leaving the next manager with players they might not have wanted and, in several cases, ones we couldn't move on, let alone sell at a profit.

I think it's these experiences that led the club to double down on the director of football model, rather than giving the manager much of a say. Even as recently as January the club directly overruled the manager to sell the captain, despite the toys being very unlikely to remain in the managers pram afterwards.

I mean, I'm sure they've told Sage he can stick his opinion into the mix, but I doubt he'll be in a strong position of influence, much less that he can kick off by making demands.

Although, if he does well enough to have other options then I'm sure at some stage we'll hear all about how he wants the club to spend more. They all want that, every one of them, at every club. Like Allardyce and Pulis!

 

[Caterham]

Understood, but it's for Sage to push as Allardyce did bringing in Sakho, PVA, Luka and Schlupp in one window.
I doubt this would have happened without Allardyce pushing for it.
The real crime is to aim low and still miss.

I think losing 0.4 to Sunderland (0.4 down by halftime) probably helped persuade the board that Sam was right to push for reinforcements.

 

[PatrickA]

Allardyce definitely did push for players he wanted, as did Pulis before him. Both may argue they were right to do so as they kept us up, but neither manager stayed around more than half a season after getting their signings delivered to them. They both f***ed off, leaving the next manager with players they might not have wanted and, in several cases, ones we couldn't move on, let alone sell at a profit.

I think it's these experiences that led the club to double down on the director of football model, rather than giving the manager much of a say. Even as recently as January the club directly overruled the manager to sell the captain, despite the toys being very unlikely to remain in the managers pram afterwards.

I mean, I'm sure they've told Sage he can stick his opinion into the mix, but I doubt he'll be in a strong position of influence, much less that he can kick off by making demands.

Although, if he does well enough to have other options then I'm sure at some stage we'll hear all about how he wants the club to spend more. They all want that, every one of them, at every club. Like Allardyce and Pulis!

Your last paragraph reminds me of the story about Harry Redknapp.
Whichever club he was at, and regardless of his squad and position in the table, he’d always say he ‘wanted two more players.’

 

[Painter]

Allardyce definitely did push for players he wanted, as did Pulis before him. Both may argue they were right to do so as they kept us up, but neither manager stayed around more than half a season after getting their signings delivered to them. They both f***ed off, leaving the next manager with players they might not have wanted and, in several cases, ones we couldn't move on, let alone sell at a profit.

I think it's these experiences that led the club to double down on the director of football model, rather than giving the manager much of a say. Even as recently as January the club directly overruled the manager to sell the captain, despite the toys being very unlikely to remain in the managers pram afterwards.

I mean, I'm sure they've told Sage he can stick his opinion into the mix, but I doubt he'll be in a strong position of influence, much less that he can kick off by making demands.

Although, if he does well enough to have other options then I'm sure at some stage we'll hear all about how he wants the club to spend more. They all want that, every one of them, at every club. Like Allardyce and Pulis!

Every new manager at any club, likes to bring players he has worked with and trusts. Glasner brought in Lacroix and Kamada who he had at previous clubs. That worked out quite well.

 

[MrRobbo]

Fair enough. I just think at 24 the lad is hardly the Championship's new 'bright young thing'. He has been around a while and only last season started playing to the form that has got him noticed. I'm also told (might not be true) that he only has a year left on his contract. If that is true then I'm sorry but £25m is pushing it.

Yep agree.

The lad is good, but he's not Wharton good. At 24 he should be entering his prime. He's also in the last year of his contract.

I can understand whey they are pushing for £20/25 but thats a bit steep IMO.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Every new manager at any club, likes to bring players he has worked with and trusts. Glasner brought in Lacroix and Kamada who he had at previous clubs. That worked out quite well.

It did, and hopefully Sage is able to identify a bargain player or two that he has better knowledge of than the club. That would be very different, though, to control over transfers or making demands on that front as part of joining us.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Your last paragraph reminds me of the story about Harry Redknapp.
Whichever club he was at, and regardless of his squad and position in the table, he’d always say he ‘wanted two more players.’

Yes, managerial genius at work. That's why these people are paid the big bucks. There's no way you or I could deliver that type of insight!

 

[JHB]

Understood, but it's for Sage to push as Allardyce did bringing in Sakho, PVA, Luka and Schlupp in one window.
I doubt this would have happened without Allardyce pushing for it.
The real crime is to aim low and still miss.

A bit of a different scenario though as without bringing in new and better players we were likely to be relegated. So that was a crisis where as now it’s more how do we balance things between doing well and making the numbers add up. Back then as well the financial rules weren’t there so easier to spend.

As an aside all of them were great signings. Sakho on loan was brilliant. Luka was a stalwart for several seasons. PVA a good left back for us and Schlupp a high versatile squad player

 

[Teddy Eagle]

A bit of a different scenario though as without bringing in new and better players we were likely to be relegated. So that was a crisis where as now it’s more how do we balance things between doing well and making the numbers add up. Back then as well the financial rules weren’t there so easier to spend.

As an aside all of them were great signings. Sakho on loan was brilliant. Luka was a stalwart for several seasons. PVA a good left back for us and Schlupp a high versatile squad player

It's a good point about PSR which must, or certainly should, limit expectations on spending. Unfortunately a few clubs seem exempt and will continue spending hundreds of millions but most are in the same boat.

 

[PatrickA]

A bit of a different scenario though as without bringing in new and better players we were likely to be relegated. So that was a crisis where as now it’s more how do we balance things between doing well and making the numbers add up. Back then as well the financial rules weren’t there so easier to spend.

As an aside all of them were great signings. Sakho on loan was brilliant. Luka was a stalwart for several seasons. PVA a good left back for us and Schlupp a high versatile squad player

You make fair points in your first paragraph.
I think the central point I'm driving at is that we have a weaker squad than at the start of last season and this will be compounded if Kamada and Mateta leave.
We had one of our lowest finishing positions in the Premier League and our form in the second half of the season would have seen us in a struggle.
We go into a new season in a tougher European competition and overly reliant on Sarr as an attacking threat.

With the above in mind in my view we have to strengthen, perhaps just to stand still.

I see this as a realistic appraisal rather than a negative one.
It doesn't mean spending money we can't afford.
We can buy quality at value (see Wharton, Sarr,Munoz,Lacroix).
And to go back to Sage( if indeed it is him), now is the time to make his case for the need to strenghten.

 

[Willo]

It's a good point about PSR which must, or certainly should, limit expectations on spending. Unfortunately a few clubs seem exempt and will continue spending hundreds of millions but most are in the same boat.

PSR is being replaced by SCR (Squad Cost Ratio).
For clubs competing in Europe, spending is capped at 70% of football-related revenue. For clubs playing only domestically, the cap is 85%.

 

[BuzzBeats]

No manager in that league had done what he did by winning 4 titles in a row and to claim it was only a 1 horse league is nonsense it may have appeared like that in his spell because they did so well for those 4 seasons.

He resigned from that job so he wasn't fired either.

The Inter job was never going to work they was doing signing the previous manager wanted and new ownership came in also he was trying to play a system they didn't like (This is same system he was trying at Palace and guess what system that is the very same one Glaz used and many other teams do now 3 at the back)

Sage got fired from Lyon and he had the one good season with Lens coming second in a league which really is a 1 horse race but it was good he did win a cup but that is all he has done.

So to to claim he has better CV over FDB is madness he doesnt.

Amorim even has a far better CV.

Will Sage do well at Palace only time will tell. (I hope so but I would feel same with whoever we get)

Fired by Textor, thats good enough for me.

 

[NEILLO]

Your last paragraph reminds me of the story about Harry Redknapp.
Whichever club he was at, and regardless of his squad and position in the table, he’d always say he ‘wanted two more players.’

And one of them was always Nico Kranjcar !