News & Politics ........ random improvised discussions

You don't see any contradictions in that worldview?
No because my concern for Britain is a concern for the Britain my grandchildren will inherit. It is a bit of a stretch to spend time worrying about the future beyond them and perhaps their children. Do I worry about what my ancestors did before I was born? Only through curiosity perhaps.
Future generations of my family tree won't know anything about me beyond a bit of info and some pictures on a genealogy website if they even care to know anything. How much time can you spend worrying about people who don't exist yet?

The fact is fate will have its way and we will be dead. Relax.
 
Oh, I see your point.

I am aware that, in Venn diagram terms, there does not exist a single circle encompassing populists and those who do not accept the human - caused climate change argument.

However, I hear comments from Trump (which are aped by Farage and others) that this is a myth. I believe this point is advocated for economic and political reasons, not because it is supported by good science.

Like it or not, there is a vast body of opinion who have taken a position against human caused climate change based not on immediate self interest, or the prevailing science, but because charismatic politicians are saying it and they are believing it without question.

This is not just a nice academic debate like the causes of WWI. It has genuine consequences for the future of our world and species.

Trump stands for small and efficient government, low taxes, a defended border and a fresh break from entrenched, elitist tribal government. I have (more or less) no problem with any of that. Domestic issues and none of our business.

But a rejection of green policies from the world's largest polluter is something we really need to be concerned about, especially if this is likely to be repeated here and elsewhere by mirroring governments.

Small wonder the rise of the Greens.

Piers Corbyn has some interesting views on man-made climate change. I doubt he would align with Trump or Farage on much else.

I think you massively over-estimate the influence (and charisma) of both Trump and Farage.
All the evidence suggests that it was the other way round, Farage and Trump tapped into pre-existing populist sentiments to further their own political goals. They have shown they will happily dump those sentiments for political expediency.

Conversely, you under-estimate their populist support base, painting them as some sort of brain-washed cult followers who believe these leaders without question. In reality, they appear much more sincere, much less fickle then their own supposed 'leaders'.
Witness Trump's US base turning on him over the Epstein debacle and revelations, Israeli influence, Iran, etc - he is now being booed at sporting events when previously he only received cheers.
Similarly, Farage has seen wholesale defections and criticism because of multiple not-dissimilar issues.

The rise of the Greens ironically seems to coincide with them focussing less on Green issues. It seems to have much more to do with disillusionment with Labour on issues like Palestine.
 
Piers Corbyn has some interesting views on man-made climate change. I doubt he would align with Trump or Farage on much else.

I think you massively over-estimate the influence (and charisma) of both Trump and Farage.
All the evidence suggests that it was the other way round, Farage and Trump tapped into pre-existing populist sentiments to further their own political goals. They have shown they will happily dump those sentiments for political expediency.

Conversely, you under-estimate their populist support base, painting them as some sort of brain-washed cult followers who believe these leaders without question. In reality, they appear much more sincere, much less fickle then their own supposed 'leaders'.
Witness Trump's US base turning on him over the Epstein debacle and revelations, Israeli influence, Iran, etc - he is now being booed at sporting events when previously he only received cheers.
Similarly, Farage has seen wholesale defections and criticism because of multiple not-dissimilar issues.

The rise of the Greens ironically seems to coincide with them focussing less on Green issues. It seems to have much more to do with disillusionment with Labour on issues like Palestine.

I think both Trump and Farage have survived a plethora of scandals which would have buried any 'ordinary' politician twenty times over.
 
I think both Trump and Farage have survived a plethora of scandals which would have buried any 'ordinary' politician twenty times over.

Probably true, but unfortunately their alternatives seem even worse.
We have PM who helped cover up the mass abuse of thousands of children, while being advised by a war criminal responsible for the deaths of one million Iraqis.
How many times over should they have been buried? 40? 60? 100?

I am not sure who these 'ordinary' politicians of which you speak are. They seem thin on the ground. If you find one, let us all know
 
Probably true, but unfortunately their alternatives seem even worse.
We have PM who helped cover up the mass abuse of thousands of children, while being advised by a war criminal responsible for the deaths of one million Iraqis.
How many times over should they have been buried? 40? 60? 100?

I am not sure who these 'ordinary' politicians of which you speak are. They seem thin on the ground. If you find one, let us all know
There's a PM who won't even allow a discussion of his own affairs. I presume we're now a North Korean province. What next?: "A Guinness book of Olympic records broken by Sir Keir: great leader".
 
The starting position many have is that Trump, Farage and other populists have stated it is a lie. This is, of course, a statement they can make because climate change is not a law of physics. It is a best guess based on available data, like dinosaurs, evolution, geological ages and pretty much anything said by neurologists about the brain and cosmologists about the heavens. Where there is doubt, even small, there is room for political opportunism.

It also feeds into their narrative of independent energy security and the support of "traditional" industries i.e. where their blue collar vote comes from. These are not altogether terrible points, although their short termism is my issue.

Sticking with fossil also avoids the high upfront cost of a move to "green" energy - a point even the hardiest green energy advocate cannot argue with. That is the driver behind this, not the "questionable" science. And it means cheaper bills and more cash in your pocket just when it is needed - again, right now. Always a vote winner.

The trouble is the anti evidence is always so suspect. Take the poll you cite. You reference the outcome but take it at face value that the pollster was scrupulously independent; that the questions were fair; that the responses have been properly assessed, reported and so on. Anyone with memory of that Yes Prime Minister sketch knows what I am talking about.

China are investing heavily in green and I suspect India will shortly follow. There is no pressure whatever on those countries to do that. Indeed, they would not do so at such personal cost with the economic advantage it would hand to their trade rivals if they thought for one second the scientific evidence was suspect.

The USA and a couple of like minded countries will shortly be the few standing alone on this. And we both know what we think of that bloke on the high street with the sandwich-board yelling that everyone else is crazy.
Bit of an insult really. I don’t give a s*** what they say. I say it’s all bollox and have done since all this crap started. The fact that people not agreeing have been cancelled isn’t coincidence. When I was at school bread nowadays would be a tenner a loaf we were told. Worst case again but you can still get a loaf for 70 p.
 

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