Newcastle vs. Crystal Palace match thread

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You go into these games with an idea how you are likely to play based on form from previous matches. If we were playing Villa this weekend I would not expect a result in our favour. The next two games are big ones and we need that form back. Players are presently playing gun ho with numerous mistakes and no positional togetherness play whatsoever? In my opinion we need that form back this weekend?

I would hope for a performance against Bournemouth firstly because we are at home, second because this is a preparation for the following weekend and third because the opposition is not as good as City or Newcastle.
I'd get your tin hat ready for the Arsenal game. I expect to see lot of changes for that one.

 

[NEILLO]

I got home last night at 11.30pm to watch a recording of the live Sky coverage. I’d been to see 78 year old soul singer PP Arnold’s show in Hove. She put more energy into her performance than most of the Palace team.

To these eyes, we were overcome by a team currently playing at the top of their game. But not before we had opportunities of our own that weren’t taken largely due to poor decision making in their final third. And then the unexpected, and by then undeserved lifeline of the penalty, duly missed and 90 seconds later we concede again.

Newcastles way of playing is known to everyone but we made it easy for them. You’ll get the usual suspects in here blaming our formation, didn’t hear much from them when we were winning regularly did we…but looking at how players were getting drawn out of position too easily was a big part of the equation in my opinion.

It’s not often you see an entire team play badly but last nights starting eleven managed just that.

For whatever reason, performances haven’t been that impressive since the cup win at Fulham. It’s almost like there’s an unhealthy preoccupation with the semi final at the expense of league results. That needs to change starting on Saturday

 

[Spindle]

IMO it wasn't a formation issue.

It was bad decisions and individual errors

1st goal, Lacoix stupidly gave the ball away, when there was a 2 yard pass on

2nd goal - Hughes over committed in the press, vs holding position, Lerma not close enough to him, and then even though Munoz was up the pitch, Richards for some reason decided to run 20 yards forward to press, leaving the whole right side exposed. Lacroix too easily beaten

3rd goal - cant see it on the highlights, but pretty sure Hughes lost it stupidly

4th goal - Lerma from memory gave a silly free kick away

5th goal - Lacroix stupidly lost the ball

Broadly, Lacroix was a mess. Hughes and Lerma were positionally terrible. There were a couple of other chances where they didn't properly track runners in to the box, that either lead directly to chances, or dragged everyone over leaving a free man on the back post.

Not that it was a game for man of the match, but Kamada was clearly the best and most composed on display.

As much as I love Hughes and Lerma, both are the type of players fans like. Full of running and commitment. Always engage. Good optics. However...... with a very smart and technically capable CM like Newcastles, we are often left in a position there they are dragged in and then bypassed.

Sorry but this I can't agree with at all. FIrstly, Kamada came on when the game was over and Newcastle had taken their foot off the gas as an attacking threat. It is far far easier to play like that. But in terms of the formation you have utterly glossed over how easily they exposed us with that 4-3-3 width strategy, and some decent passes. There were several very dangerous attacks that ended in corners or saves, several 4 on 2's and this is way beyond just a few individual errors, it was strategic. The fact that you blame Hughes for the 3rd says a lot, when he was given a ball that he shouldn't have been given after they had snuffed out Eze from cutting inside like they had all game. They knew what was dangerous with us and snuffed it out, they knew our weaknesses and exploited them. You are describing strategy pulling us apart as if they are individual mistakes.

 

[Spindle]

I have no idea what this all means but I agree 🤣. Can I just add I thought Darren England had an ok game, not that it took much reffing, I was pleasantly surprised when he gave the penalty. DE has always been on my “hate” list after several abject performances over the years but this season he has gone up in my estimation

He didn't give it, he was told to. Once they go to the monitor you know what is coming.

 

[ASCPFC]

Sorry but this I can't agree with at all. FIrstly, Kamada came on when the game was over and Newcastle had taken their foot off the gas as an attacking threat. It is far far easier to play like that. But in terms of the formation you have utterly glossed over how easily they exposed us with that 4-3-3 width strategy, and some decent passes. There were several very dangerous attacks that ended in corners or saves, several 4 on 2's and this is way beyond just a few individual errors, it was strategic. The fact that you blame Hughes for the 3rd says a lot, when he was given a ball that he shouldn't have been given after they had snuffed out Eze from cutting inside like they had all game. They knew what was dangerous with us and snuffed it out, they knew our weaknesses and exploited them. You are describing strategy pulling us apart as if they are individual mistakes.

Decent points. Largely how I felt.
If they'd kept their foot on the gas they could have scored a few more.
I felt sorry for Henderson with that in front of him. Nowhere to hide. Plus a freak of a near post goal. Not his day

 

[MrRobbo]

Sorry but this I can't agree with at all. FIrstly, Kamada came on when the game was over and Newcastle had taken their foot off the gas as an attacking threat. It is far far easier to play like that. But in terms of the formation you have utterly glossed over how easily they exposed us with that 4-3-3 width strategy, and some decent passes. There were several very dangerous attacks that ended in corners or saves, several 4 on 2's and this is way beyond just a few individual errors, it was strategic. The fact that you blame Hughes for the 3rd says a lot, when he was given a ball that he shouldn't have been given after they had snuffed out Eze from cutting inside like they had all game. They knew what was dangerous with us and snuffed it out, they knew our weaknesses and exploited them. You are describing strategy pulling us apart as if they are individual mistakes.

I know you hate Kamada, so wouldn't expect you to give any credit. I also not that you dont slate any of the other players even though some were terrible. Lacroix in particular.....

There isnt anything that you've said that says its a formation issue. The very notion of wingbacks is they can play more attacking or more defensively. The fact that we got exposed was because Munoz was so far forward most of the time and we kept giving the ball away. Didn't happen as much on the left hand side did it? Does Barnes score if Richards stays in position rather that the kamikaze blitz that he tried?

Yeah they knew our weaknesses, its not hard is it. Midfield 2 (of Lerma and Hughes) press too quickly and can be bi-passed, Munoz is always way up the pitch and Richards isn't that fast. Win the ball and get it in that channel early. But thats pretty obvious, and most games teams aren't able to exploit that.
You can blame formation as much as you want, but a lot of them were individual mistakes. Lacroix's 2 for example. Probably Henderson for the first. Richards lunacy, (and Lacroix gets beaten way way too easily) for Barnes goal. Free kick goal wasn't a 'mistake', but not a formation point (and neither Sarr or JPM made an attempt to even put him off). So 5 goals there with very very clear mistakes (or at least not formation issues)

The missed pen was a BIG moment. Also didn't help that Eze, JMP and Sarr did the square root of F all.

 

[palace chick]

I think people saying Kamada played better than any one else last night when coming on is correct. The problem we have with him is when OG puts him in a middle two. Play him more forward and you have a good squad player. More a sub coming on than a starter in my opinion. Saying that, I would rather he started than Eza last night or many games this season. Eza continuously loses the ball and doesn’t defend that well. We put up with that because once in a while he can be amazing. Roy would probably start Kamada in OG’s formation over Eza, but then he wouldn’t have that formation 🙂

 

[park the bus]

I know you hate Kamada, so wouldn't expect you to give any credit. I also not that you dont slate any of the other players even though some were terrible. Lacroix in particular.....

There isnt anything that you've said that says its a formation issue. The very notion of wingbacks is they can play more attacking or more defensively. The fact that we got exposed was because Munoz was so far forward most of the time and we kept giving the ball away. Didn't happen as much on the left hand side did it? Does Barnes score if Richards stays in position rather that the kamikaze blitz that he tried?

Yeah they knew our weaknesses, its not hard is it. Midfield 2 (of Lerma and Hughes) press too quickly and can be bi-passed, Munoz is always way up the pitch and Richards isn't that fast. Win the ball and get it in that channel early. But thats pretty obvious, and most games teams aren't able to exploit that.
You can blame formation as much as you want, but a lot of them were individual mistakes. Lacroix's 2 for example. Probably Henderson for the first. Richards lunacy, (and Lacroix gets beaten way way too easily) for Barnes goal. Free kick goal wasn't a 'mistake', but not a formation point (and neither Sarr or JPM made an attempt to even put him off). So 5 goals there with very very clear mistakes (or at least not formation issues)

The missed pen was a BIG moment. Also didn't help that Eze, JMP and Sarr did the square root of F all.

Would you say that this was because the ball didn't reach them in areas where they could do their stuff, or when they did get the ball they were clueless, or maybe it was it a matter of them not pressing the Newcastle defence or contributing to the more defensive nature of Glasner's plan?

 

[MrRobbo]

Would you say that this was because the ball didn't reach them in areas where they could do their stuff, or when they did get the ball they were clueless, or maybe it was it a matter of them not pressing the Newcastle defence or contributing to the more defensive nature of Glasner's plan?

Not too sure in honesty. I suspect its a mix of a lot of things.

Sarr mad a couple of poor decisions that I can remember.

Eze was generally poor (though as someone else pointed out we consist with because he can deliver).

JPM failed to get himself involved. I can remember one run on the break where he cut back a couple of times (avoiding a forward pass) and ultimately gave it away.

Midfield failed to get the ball to them early.

Ultimately Newcastle were explosive in their transition (much like we were in the first 20 mins vs City), and we were laboured, and made a sh1t load of mistakes.

 

[Rainforest]

Just a couple of points:

1. Everyone misses penalties
2. They were just better than us. we did not go out to just defend - we played our style and they beat us at it.
3. City pressed hard and united caught us on the wings. Both hurt us.

I don’t feel too bad about it. Although I am glad I did not travel for it. As I did for city.

On to the next.

Sorry, not insightful analysis, just my tuppence worth.

I wouldn't call the penalty a missed penalty. Eze was just stupid and the kick was a gift save for the GK.

 

[Painter]

I'm not being Professor Hindsight but we were always going to lose tonight, and if we get anything at Arsenal next week I'll be amazed, and this is from Professor Foresight. My only gripe, cos these things happen, is that we currently need to rotate the squad a bit more to avoid 1) fatigue 2) becoming predictable and stale. Problem is we don't really have back up defenders but midfield and attacking wise we do have depth so why not use it? Team structure and strategy evolves throughout the season to avoid getting 'found out'. It's taken two top sides to find us out last two games, and I'm sure we'll have a few tweaks for the Villa game, but I'd like to see Devenny, Esse, Chilwell and Franca getting more starts and the regulars coming off the bench a bit more - a frustrated Eze as a 30 minute impact sub could get more out of him at times. Good to see Kamada getting good reviews though, maybe a suitable role for him could supply some of the freshness we currently seem to be lacking.

Rotation has nothing to do with our performance. Newcastle fielded the same 11 for 6th game running, they didnt look fatigued and we made 2 changes. The issue is fielding a back 3 and midfield 2 against a lone striker and midfield 3, Lerma and Hughes were chasing shadows.

 

[ex hibitionist]

Rotation has nothing to do with our performance. Newcastle fielded the same 11 for 6th game running, they didnt look fatigued and we made 2 changes. The issue is fielding a back 3 and midfield 2 against a lone striker and midfield 3, Lerma and Hughes were chasing shadows.

fair point but it's not either/or - you say yourself we needed a change in the system, which implies a change in selection, but it's also about momentum at different stages of the season, Newcastle have clicked the way we did last back-end, whereas we have looked a bit one dimensional since beating Fulham and Villa, we can agree that Glasner needs to shake it up a bit, in fairness to him he did put an extra midfielder on second half v City but we still got over-run, so I think freshness is more the issue.

 

[ASCPFC]

fair point but it's not either/or - you say yourself we needed a change in the system, which implies a change in selection, but it's also about momentum at different stages of the season, Newcastle have clicked the way we did last back-end, whereas we have looked a bit one dimensional since beating Fulham and Villa, we can agree that Glasner needs to shake it up a bit, in fairness to him he did put an extra midfielder on second half v City but we still got over-run, so I think freshness is more the issue.

We keep on having 3 matches a week - yet we're not in Europe. This year's fixture list leaves something to be desired. We had two weeks without a game and it wasn't even an international break. There is no need at all to have three matches a week. This is to facilitate the stupid nations league, nobody cares - FA pull out. Not worth it. Nobody cares - name any winners? No.

 

[PatrickA]

Bournemouth may not have the stellar names of City and Newcastle , but they have plenty of pace down the sides in Semenyo and and Outtara , a dangerous striker in Evanilson and play 3 in midfield and overlapping full backs.
Like Newcastle, will they get in behind us down the sides and outnumber and outplay us in midfield?

Not necessarily.
Fulham and Brighton also play in a similar way and we contained them and were ruthless on the counter.
In fact the same could be said for the first 20 mins v City.

I’m prepared to accept that we’ve had two really bad off days and can get back on track.
I don’t believe there’s anything fundamentally wrong, but obviously we will have to sharpen up defensively and hope that Wharton and/or Hughes find some form and fitness so the team doesn’t look so disjointed.

 

[MrRobbo]

Rotation has nothing to do with our performance. Newcastle fielded the same 11 for 6th game running, they didnt look fatigued and we made 2 changes. The issue is fielding a back 3 and midfield 2 against a lone striker and midfield 3, Lerma and Hughes were chasing shadows.

To be fair, thats what they do. Attack dogs.

IMO neither are great positionally. I never feel comfortable when both are starting together

 

[Eaglecoops]

It's not though, is it. Leicester won the PL barely changing their first XI and without changing their tactics. We went 11 games unbeaten away from home, including a PL record six wins on the trot without conceding, without OG tinkering much. We've had two bad results. A club our size will always have tough periods during the season. Let's not start another Glasner Out thread just yet 😉

Glasner out is not what Lanzo is saying, he, as with me believe you must adjust your team set up and tactics to suit the opposition you are playing. The additional man in the Newcastle midfield continuallysucked in one of our centre half’s whatever side they were attacking such that their wingers/overlapping backs found acres of space once our own overlapping wingbacks were caught out of position.

Yes, our cause wasn’t helped by individual defensive errors however we were exposed by a formation that was ripping apart our own. This was not difficult to see.

There needs to be an alternative formation to play against a dominant midfield which doesn’t allow the opposition to ping balls to their hearts content. We were actually lucky it was only 5.

I don’t mind Glasners set up against 70% of the league, however more pragmatism is required when we come up against 3 top class midfielders. Whilst I was not a Hodgson fan, I can’t help thinking that in the last two games his tactics would have seen much closer games.

 

[Spiderman]

He didn't give it, he was told to. Once they go to the monitor you know what is coming.

Well eventually he gave it 😂

 

[ASCPFC]

Glasner out is not what Lanzo is saying, he, as with me believe you must adjust your team set up and tactics to suit the opposition you are playing. The additional man in the Newcastle midfield continuallysucked in one of our centre half’s whatever side they were attacking such that their wingers/overlapping backs found acres of space once our own overlapping wingbacks were caught out of position.

Yes, our cause wasn’t helped by individual defensive errors however we were exposed by a formation that was ripping apart our own. This was not difficult to see.

There needs to be an alternative formation to play against a dominant midfield which doesn’t allow the opposition to ping balls to their hearts content. We were actually lucky it was only 5.

I don’t mind Glasners set up against 70% of the league, however more pragmatism is required when we come up against 3 top class midfielders. Whilst I was not a Hodgson fan, I can’t help thinking that in the last two games his tactics would have seen much closer games.

I always think it's horses for courses. Each team needs to be analysed and then set up accordingly. However, last two games the other teams easily beat us tactically. Their analysis had worked - we were barking up the wrong tree.
And I think this has to include an alternative formation. I don't think you can show up week in, week out exactly the same. You need to spring a surprise or two. Maybe this contributes to Glasner's length of time at clubs? I have no idea but it seems a little doctrinal to always play the same formation - no matter what. Maybe there's an ace up Glasner's sleeve? We play like this every game but then change in the final - bamboozling our opponents entirely.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Bore off. Quiet when we win, killing the formation when we lose.

Suspect the supporters of these clubs would disagree. I suspect an unbiased combined 11 of those teams wouldn't feature too many Palace players.

I have always said i hated that Formation, if it was any good, all would play it

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Glasner has played various formations with his other clubs, especially with Wolfsburg where he played always with a back four, he mixed and matched at Frankfurt, but the Blinkers are definitely on at Palace, he needs to be more flexible