Letby – more information coming to light

[steeleye20]

‘Great deal to be concerned about’: Judge Rinder speaks out on Lucy Letby case​

TV star Rob Rinder says there is a great deal about the convicted child killer’s case that provokes concern'​

Like the lack of proof I suggest.

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[ASCPFC]

‘Great deal to be concerned about’: Judge Rinder speaks out on Lucy Letby case​

TV star Rob Rinder says there is a great deal about the convicted child killer’s case that provokes concern'​

Like the lack of proof I suggest.

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Just personally never felt this case were proven beyond any reasonable doubt. I didn't really see how it could be with no motive, no method and no means. It doesn't mean Letby didn't kill anyone - just that I didn't see it as proven - as you suggest.

 

[eritheagle]

Lucy Letby: Questions grow in debate on killer's convictions

A number of experts are raising concerns about evidence presented in the neonatal nurse's trials.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is this morning in the news.
Certain professionals were not called.
A jury of lay people as badger said will only go on what they are advised.
They like all of us are not able to read medical data.

And David Davis who is leading the calls for a retrial also said that after writing that she was "evil" she also wrote that she hadn't done anything bad directly underneath.

There is a suggestion that it may have been an infection that has killed the babies when she was on duty and many others when she wasn't there.

I don't know if she is innocent or guilty but every person is entitled to a fair trial and if there is evidence that she didn't receive this then she deserves a retrial.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

I am staggered that this question about Letby's conviction is gathering traction.

I will need a lot convincing that she's not guilty as charged.

It’s not gathering traction. This always happens where there is an appeal talked about in a high profile case. You always get the odd one or two who say he or she may not have done it.
Pay no attention. The jury(s) found her guilty of seven murders and seven attempted murders. The appeal Judges have since refused her leave to appeal on all grounds.

She is without doubt guilty of these despicable crimes and I am deeply concerned that anyone, who has followed the case AND read the final judgements, could believe otherwise.

 

[eritheagle]

It’s not gathering traction. This always happens where there is an appeal talked about in a high profile case. You always get the odd one or two who say he or she may not have done it.
Pay no attention. The jury(s) found her guilty of seven murders and seven attempted murders. The appeal Judges have since refused her leave to appeal on all grounds.

She is without doubt guilty of these despicable crimes and I am deeply concerned that anyone, who has followed the case AND read the final judgements, could believe otherwise.

I don’t think anyone’s saying she’s definitely innocent just that there does seem doubt to whether she had a fair trial or that there is doubt that she is definitely guilty.

I don’t know either way as I haven’t followed this case closely but there does seem to be quite a few senior people raising concerns which isn’t always the case in “conspiracy theories “ of this particular kind.

 

[beak]

If she were an old ugly bird few would give a feck.

Personally I view it as unlikely she is innocent.

What worries me is the amount of favourable evidence which was buried by the prosecutors,why bury stuff if you are home and dry.Dodgy.

 

[Stirlingsays]

What worries me is the amount of favourable evidence which was buried by the prosecutors,why bury stuff if you are home and dry.Dodgy.

What I will say is that many people's trust in our court justice system is at an all time low and in my view quite rightly. It's also true that guilty verdicts on the innocent do happen, if rarely.....then again, what is a crime and sentences given out we have seen politicised and also some of the lengths of sentences can make you doubt the sanity involved.

However, while none of us were there to hear all the evidence in this case what I did hear seemed quite conclusive to me.

This type of female does exist and they are out there....not many thankfully but these types of mental illnesses are well known.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Let me first say that there are some dedicated people working in the NHS. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of useless ones. Moreover, there are lots of overworked, tired and disillusioned ones too.

With the standard of care so varied and at times atrocious, I'd not be surprised if people were dying daily because of misdiagnosis, gross incompetence or simple neglect.

The health service tries very hard to cover its mistakes and avoid any legal action.

The case of Letby is interesting in that context, although I obviously cannot comment on evidence that I have not seen.

 

[kevlee]

So instead of a top legal team David Davis and judge Rinder will prove her innocence. No actual medical experts will defend her.
What a load of bull s***.
We have a jury system that has lasted hundreds of years plus a court of appeal.
I have 100% confidence in her conviction.
The

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

The Product, or conviction, may be valid.
It's the process of how we got there that's important.
From the limited bits in the media what I read, it seemed there was little/no motive, no witnesses, and no medical evidence that she did anything.

She might just have happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and been a victim of the workplace gossip machine.
She might also be the predatorial psychopath that the prosecution portrayed.

We could toss a coin and get the same result as the jury, which might also be the correct outcome.
It's how we arrive there, with the correct robust procedure that's important.

Anyone remember Colin Stag ?, or the many , many others that suffered wrongful convictions

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Lucy Letby was nicknamed as "Nurse Death" by junior doctors at the Countess of Chester Hospital, the Thirlwall inquiry hears

Surely a case of workplace bullying ? Or absolvent of any institutional or personal blame ? Or inadmissible Hearsay ?

I'm looking for actual evidence, which is still lacking at this point.

 

[Tim Gypsy Hill '64]

Guilty.

Evil, despicable crimes.

The evidence at trial was compelling and the jury, having heard all the evidence presented found her guilty, either unanimously or by a majority of 10:1

The comments of the judge during sentencing were also very telling. 15 whole life orders aren’t passed without good cause.

Maybe. But what if all the evidence was not provided? Such as all the other babies that died when she was not on the roster. In the period that she was accused of the murders, and not present, more than seven other babies died.

I'm not saying she's innocent, but it definitely looks like a mistrial.

 

[Tim Gypsy Hill '64]

If she were an old ugly bird few would give a feck.

Personally I view it as unlikely she is innocent.

Whilst I'm not totally in accordance with your view, I can understand why so many agree with you. It's a horrendous crime to commit and we need to punish the perpetrator. I'm not sure if she is guilty by the way, but she may well be. The evidence of a mistrial however, is getting quite convincing.

This from a month ago

 

[eritheagle]

The Product, or conviction, may be valid.
It's the process of how we got there that's important.
From the limited bits in the media what I read, it seemed there was little/no motive, no witnesses, and no medical evidence that she did anything.

She might just have happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and been a victim of the workplace gossip machine.
She might also be the predatorial psychopath that the prosecution portrayed.

We could toss a coin and get the same result as the jury, which might also be the correct outcome.
It's how we arrive there, with the correct robust procedure that's important.

Anyone remember Colin Stag ?, or the many , many others that suffered wrongful convictions

A man had a conviction for murder quashed yesterday after serving 30 years behind bars.

 

[Stirlingsays]

A man had a conviction for murder quashed yesterday after serving 30 years behind bars.

Was he actually innocent?

How do we know we can trust the competence of those lobbying for his release over those who lobbied for his conviction.

Impossible to know, but I think competence in most fields has declined in these thirty years not increased.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

Maybe. But what if all the evidence was not provided? Such as all the other babies that died when she was not on the roster. In the period that she was accused of the murders, and not present, more than seven other babies died.

I'm not saying she's innocent, but it definitely looks like a mistrial.

I have been involved with the legal profession in one way or another for all of my working life - just over 36 years. I have dealt with more cases and investigations than I could ever imagine in that time.

I followed this case with great interest and read in detail the final judgement. I also considered the judges remarks and the statements of the victims familie’s and their solicitors, post trial and at sentencing.

There is nothing that I am aware of that would cause me to question a single one of the 14 guilty verdicts. In fact, quite the opposite and I have not one shred of doubt that she was responsible for these appalling crimes.

 

[silvertop]

I don’t think anyone’s saying she’s definitely innocent just that there does seem doubt to whether she had a fair trial or that there is doubt that she is definitely guilty.

I don’t know either way as I haven’t followed this case closely but there does seem to be quite a few senior people raising concerns which isn’t always the case in “conspiracy theories “ of this particular kind.

Im with you. I struggle to understand how anyone not privy to all the facts can be so certain. The media simply print the most entertaining aspects. Trials are dry assessments of all the details.

Thus, a lot rested on deaths occurring merely when she was there. That is not enough.

But most worrying is the media focus on what she wrote in her own time. Highly selective quotes that establish her "evil". Actually when read in the whole possibly more an outpouring of emotion... being what they were intended to be, as she was directed to write them by her therapist. No mention of that by the prosecution or Dailly Mail.

Either Lucy Letby is going to rot in prison and/or become another celebrated miscarriage of justice. Time will tell.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Im with you. I struggle to understand how anyone not privy to all the facts can be so certain. The media simply print the most entertaining aspects. Trials are dry assessments of all the details.

Thus, a lot rested on deaths occurring merely when she was there. That is not enough.

But most worrying is the media focus on what she wrote in her own time. Highly selective quotes that establish her "evil". Actually when read in the whole possibly more an outpouring of emotion... being what they were intended to be, as she was directed to write them by her therapist. No mention of that by the prosecution or Dailly Mail.

Either Lucy Letby is going to rot in prison and/or become another celebrated miscarriage of justice. Time will tell.

Did the therapist say in the trial that this amounted to expressing what she wrote? As I regarded that as rather more than expressing your emotions rather than bottle them up.....as I'd expect a therapist to say.

 

[Spiderman]

I have just posted on the “sentence too harsh” thread regarding Jeremy Bamber. This case has been followed very closely by us as, my wife’s grandmother knew the Bamber family well, living in same village. She always said Jeremy was a “strange un “but did not believe he was guilt. So much does not ring true about the case and the fact he has now served 40 years and had numerous appeals declined, is strange. Personally I think the awful murders were committed by his sister ( the children’s mother) who was known to have mental health issues and could have been losing her children. I also believe that the cousin, who inherited everything was involved with framing Bamber. Just my opinion of course

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

I have just posted on the “sentence too harsh” thread regarding Jeremy Bamber. This case has been followed very closely by us as, my wife’s grandmother knew the Bamber family well, living in same village. She always said Jeremy was a “strange un “but did not believe he was guilt. So much does not ring true about the case and the fact he has now served 40 years and had numerous appeals declined, is strange. Personally I think the awful murders were committed by his sister ( the children’s mother) who was known to have mental health issues and could have been losing her children. I also believe that the cousin, who inherited everything was involved with framing Bamber. Just my opinion of course

The smell of inheritance money does strange things to family members. That could certainly be a motive for murder.
Which is one of the issues why the Letby case is strange, because the lack of motive.