Labour Party politics

[Badger11]

I'm not arguing that living costs haven’t gone up just pointing out that some people have choices where they spend their money.

I bought my first home when I was 21 I had to live like a monk for a few years, before and after, until my salary went up. That was my choice.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I'm not arguing that living costs haven’t gone up just pointing out that some people have choices where they spend their money.

I bought my first home when I was 21 I had to live like a monk for a few years, before and after, until my salary went up. That was my choice.

If you don't mind, what was your salary when you were 21 and how much was the house?

Do you think a 21 year old, regardless of how they live, has any hope of buying a property now?

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I'd have to look into it, but to my mind credit cards we much more prevalent in the 90s and early 2000s than they are now.

I find the implication that young people now don't 'go without' unfair - most young people now go without a reasonable salary, many of them go without decent living conditions as they pay exuberant rates to rent a small room in a flat share. They go without many of the social experiences which were the norm 20 years ago; pubs are empty, restaurants are empty, cinemas are empty, nightclubs are empty - none of them can afford to enjoy these things.

Vague soundbites about coffees and smart phones are just not a reasonable way to approach the topic - those things don't touch the sides.

Not to say that it would make much difference in putting down a deposit when prices are astronomic but credit cards are much more prevalent since the advent of internet shopping and personally I find contactless payments make it easier to spend money rather than having to count out cash.
We need to find a way of making housing more affordable.

 

[Stirlingsays]

There are just more things to spend money on now and in the past credit cards weren't around, or at least as prevalent, so if the cash wasn't there people went without.
One suggestion to the problem of rising house prices is to change the system so that estate agents act for the buyer rather than the seller. Whereas they currently attract business by trying to set prices as high as possible and benefit from the increased percentage they would be trying to find the best deal for the buyer.

I suspect all these aspects factor in but it doesn't really change the ratio that much when you're talking about the income to house price ratio, it's just too large.

I remember looking at house prices in the 90s because I was in a reasonably paid job and around that area houses that they were in the 30 thousands are now around and above 200, 000....sometimes nearer 250.

Completely nuts for that same twenty something today......We have a situation where only families with a bit of money (bank of mum and dad) or the talented...and often two of them can afford to own a home.

If Joe average can't get a look in we have a bleak future......That situation stores up a lot of social and economic problems down the pipe, well it factors in already.

 

[Badger11]

If you don't mind, what was your salary when you were 21 and how much was the house?

Do you think a 21 year old, regardless of how they live, has any hope of buying a property now?

If they are on minimum wage no. But the same applied in my day.

I wasn't on a great salary like I said I saved and saved and mummy and daddy didn't help me because we were dirt poor. Straight off a council estate, that's me.

The definition of poverty seems to change over time, apparently you are poor if you have a smartphone and a 2 week foreign holiday.

To quote Monty Python "luxury, luxury".

Of course it should be easier for young people to own or rent. But heaven helps those who help themselves.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

If they are on minimum wage no. But the same applied in my day.

I wasn't on a great salary like I said I saved and saved and mummy and daddy didn't help me because we were dirt poor. Straight off a council estate, that's me.

The definition of poverty seems to change over time, apparently you are poor if you have a smartphone and a 2 week foreign holiday.

To quote Monty Python "luxury, luxury".

Of course it should be easier for young people to own or rent. But heaven helps those who help themselves.

Obviously not on minimum wage - a 21 year old on an average graduate salary of around £30k - do they have any hope of buying a home (without help), even with the best living habits imaginable?

Do you think a kid straight off a council estate now has any hope of following the path you did to home ownership by 21?

A smart phone costs a couple of hundred quid or a contract of £20 a month - it's a complete irrelevance.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think the housing problem is probably similar to the national debt and deficit.....all over the west.

The nature of democracy means that the public are always going to vote for who promises (lies) them the most. So the problems keep snowballing and any attempt at addressing the problems are performative at best.

We have a treasury that demands a higher population, which it gets by importing foreigners....and poor quality most of them.....all while we don't have the economy to pay for an increasing population.

Low quality elites only ever concerned about their personal careers amid the fact that no one is ever held accountable in the ruling classes.

Compared to the past, there's a lack of concern about the country, a disconnect between the individual and care for it.....What was it that Kennedy said, 'think not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for the country'....something like that....though personally I'd blame his brother for worsening some of that.

There are other things some of could say about it but I'll leave it at that.

 

[martin2412]

I'd have to look into it, but to my mind credit cards we much more prevalent in the 90s and early 2000s than they are now.

I find the implication that young people now don't 'go without' unfair - most young people now go without a reasonable salary, many of them go without decent living conditions as they pay exuberant rates to rent a small room in a flat share. They go without many of the social experiences which were the norm 20 years ago; pubs are empty, restaurants are empty, cinemas are empty, nightclubs are empty - none of them can afford to enjoy these things.

Vague soundbites about coffees and smart phones are just not a reasonable way to approach the topic - those things don't touch the sides.

And many of today's youngsters aren't prepared to get their hands dirty to learn a trade and build up an income. They all think that they're entitled to have it all now. Look at the building trade for example, it's absolutely crying out for skilled trades people, but a lot of kids aren't prepared to go through the years of training in order to get there. They think 'sod that I'll become a social media influencer'.
Too many kids go to university now to do unimportant, non vocational courses, just so that they don't have to go to work. They rack up thousands of pounds of debt in the meantime for what ? Just so they can say they've had a good time going on the piss with their mates ?
When I was that age you had to be clever to go to university, now anyone can get in. Go and get a job you lazy feckers.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

And many of today's youngsters aren't prepared to get their hands dirty to learn a trade and build up an income. They all think that they're entitled to have it all now. Look at the building trade for example, it's absolutely crying out for skilled trades people, but a lot of kids aren't prepared to go through the years of training in order to get there. They think 'sod that I'll become a social media influencer'.
Too many kids go to university now to do unimportant, non vocational courses, just so that they don't have to go to work. They rack up thousands of pounds of debt in the meantime for what ? Just so they can say they've had a good time going on the piss with their mates ?
When I was that age you had to be clever to go to university, now anyone can get in. Go and get a job you lazy feckers.

It's ironic you accuse others of being lazy whilst resorting to these sort of tropes!

"sod that I'll become a social media influencer"... what percentage of people do you think that really applies to?

Just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore all the data.

 

[Badger11]

Obviously not on minimum wage - a 21 year old on an average graduate salary of around £30k - do they have any hope of buying a home (without help), even with the best living habits imaginable?

Do you think a kid straight off a council estate now has any hope of following the path you did to home ownership by 21?

A smart phone costs a couple of hundred quid or a contract of £20 a month - it's a complete irrelevance.

I have a smartphone contract that costs £7 per month. £20 seems rather low for the must have smartphones.

It all adds up, look at the explosion in junk food deliveries someone is paying for that

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I have a smartphone contract that costs £7 per month. £20 seems rather low for the must have smartphones.

It all adds up, look at the explosion in junk food deliveries someone is paying for that

Why do you keep ignoring the questions about a 21 year old now..?

Would any 21 year old now have the chance to follow the path you did?

 

[martin2412]

It's ironic you accuse others of being lazy whilst resorting to these sort of tropes!

"sod that I'll become a social media influencer"... what percentage of people do you think that really applies to?

Just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore all the data.

Just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the other points about work/training avoidance and racking up unnecessary debt.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the other points about work/training avoidance and racking up unnecessary debt.

None of it touches the side though, does it?

How much debt would your generation have got into if they wanted to get a degree..?

Funny enough, I don't think most people go to university to 'avoid going to work'.

Do you know how much a builders' apprentice is paid these days? £7.55 an hour. It's simply not an option for a lot of people to work for that money - it doesn't cover living expenses, unless you're lucky enough to still live at home.

 

[Badger11]

Why do you keep ignoring the questions about a 21 year old now..?

Would any 21 year old now have the chance to follow the path you did?

Yes, not easy but yes.

I started work at 18 for most young people it's later than that.

I saved for 3 years solid. When I bought my first flat I really didn't have the monthly money so I had to scrimp for another 4/5 years until my career lessened the burden.

The whole 21 thing isn't relevant today as so many go onto higher education so at 21 they may just be entering the workforce. However the point I was making is that I had a goal I nearly bought my first place a year before but the numbers did not add up.

My parents never owned their own place and lived with in-laws after they got married until they could afford to rent. In many cultures they have 3 generations living together not a bad idea.

Again I appreciate that's it's hard but it's always been hard. There was a short window when Maggie was in power and councils were selling off houses and credit was easy. However that was a blip.

 

[Badger11]

We're getting off topic from Labour Party Politics.

I will start a new thread later about this and "the good ol days" or bad ol days depending on your POV.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Yes, not easy but yes.

I started work at 18 for most young people it's later than that.

I saved for 3 years solid. When I bought my first flat I really didn't have the monthly money so I had to scrimp for another 4/5 years until my career lessened the burden.

The whole 21 thing isn't relevant today as so many go onto higher education so at 21 they may just be entering the workforce. However the point I was making is that I had a goal I nearly bought my first place a year before but the numbers did not add up.

My parents never owned their own place and lived with in-laws after they got married until they could afford to rent. In many cultures they have 3 generations living together not a bad idea.

Again I appreciate that's it's hard but it's always been hard. There was a short window when Maggie was in power and councils were selling off houses and credit was easy. However that was a blip.

I don't - I think it's an absolute impossibility without financial help from family.

 

[Putitout]

None of it touches the side though, does it?

How much debt would your generation have got into if they wanted to get a degree..?

Funny enough, I don't think most people go to university to 'avoid going to work'.

Do you know how much a builders' apprentice is paid these days? £7.55 an hour. It's simply not an option for a lot of people to work for that money - it doesn't cover living expenses, unless you're lucky enough to still live at home.

It had to be an option to work back in the day.The average wage in 1960 was £700 a year, £14 a week. But it’s well known that average was swollen by white collar salaries. The average building worker, driver ,porter, in fact most blue collar work paid below that average. I was an apprentice that year ,I was on 1 shilling and six pence an hour ,about £3 - 10 shillings a week . That is about 7 or 8 pence a hour now. University wasn’t an option unless you were brilliant . Blue collar workers rarely bought houses back then they couldn’t afford them just as now.

 

[martin2412]

None of it touches the side though, does it?

How much debt would your generation have got into if they wanted to get a degree..?

Funny enough, I don't think most people go to university to 'avoid going to work'.

Do you know how much a builders' apprentice is paid these days? £7.55 an hour. It's simply not an option for a lot of people to work for that money - it doesn't cover living expenses, unless you're lucky enough to still live at home.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I don't - I think it's an absolute impossibility without financial help from family.

Unless you have one very talented cookie who gets fast tracked on good wages or two professionals together on good money.....otherwise you're renting without the bank of mum and dad.

While I'm obviously politically on the side of those arguing with you....mind you this is less of a political topic.....I think there is a reluctance to recognise the realities for those starting out now, and because owning your own home was never a walk in the park they prefer to focus on the difficulties of the past.

But before Thatcher the simple reality was that there was more available housing stock and you didn't have to be talented or need mum and dad to get on the housing ladder.....and if we go back further to the fifties my grandfather was a stoker in upper Norwood, was the only income in his marriage with two children and the home he owned is how worth millions....well I haven't looked at what's it's worth today but I remember it was over a million when I did.

And he was doing as working class a job as you get.

 

[martin2412]

Unless you have one very talented cookie who gets fast tracked on good wages or two professionals together on good money.....otherwise you're renting without the bank of mum and dad.

While I'm obviously politically on the side of those arguing with you....mind you this is less of a political topic.....I think there is a reluctance to recognise the realities for those starting out now, and because owning your own home was never a walk in the park they prefer to focus on the difficulties of the past.

But before Thatcher the simple reality was that there was more available housing stock and you didn't have to be talented or need mum and dad to get on the housing ladder.....and if we go back further to the fifties my grandfather was a stroker in upper Norwood, was the only income in his marriage with two children and the home he owned is how worth millions....well I haven't looked at what's it's worth today but I remember it was over a million when I did.

And he was doing as working class a job as you get.

Who was your grandfather stroking ?