Labour Party politics

[georgenorman]

Income tax rates have been much higher previously than they are currently.

I think addressing government wastage and corruption is a huge priority, agree.

People’s standard of living will not improve through just going to work - most people’s salaries nowadays are paid almost entirely to landlords, energy companies and supermarkets - it’s exacerbating wealth inequality, not improving it.

There are plenty of countries with higher tax rates than us with no shortage of rich people. There was a load of fear-mongering when Labour got elected that all the rich people would leave, and it never happened.

The income tax rate is just one factor.
Tax thresholds have been frozen for years and will continue to be so until 2029.
Council Tax rises above inflation year on year.
We pay 20% VAT on practically everything we buy.
How do you think wealth is generated?
If people had more money to spend themselves, the vast majority would spend it in far better ways than any government. Of course we should encourage people to work rather than relying on benefits. Work is a positive for the individual, the economy and society as a whole.
(You can't address government wastage and corruption, there is no motive for those involved to do otherwise.)

 

[Eagleman13]

Benefits are already means tested.

The WFA was not.

Both should be means tested.

The WFA was, only, if you had a certain benefit called Pension Credit. That's their for people who are still working & do not meet the threshold, which is approx £2.70 below the basic Govt Pension rate.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The income tax rate is just one factor.
Tax thresholds have been frozen for years and will continue to be so until 2029.
Council Tax rises above inflation year on year.
We pay 20% VAT on practically everything we buy.
How do you think wealth is generated?
If people had more money to spend themselves, the vast majority would spend it in far better ways than any government. Of course we should encourage people to work rather than relying on benefits. Work is a positive for the individual, the economy and society as a whole.
(You can't address government wastage and corruption, there is no motive for those involved to do otherwise.)

I’m not disputing the benefits of work, but my point is it’s no longer viable for most people to work their way out being poor.

Plenty of other governments around the world manage less wastage and corruption than us.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The WFA was, only, if you had a certain benefit called Pension Credit. That's their for people who are still working & do not meet the threshold, which is approx £2.70 below the basic Govt Pension rate.

Ok, WFA was not means tested for every pensioner, as it should be.

 

[georgenorman]

I’m not disputing the benefits of work, but my point is it’s no longer viable for most people to work their way out being poor.

Plenty of other governments around the world manage less wastage and corruption than us.

I'm always astonished when people have faith in governments.

 

[cryrst]

From the limited exposure I’ve had to benefit applications, they don’t look easy at all.

If it were so easy to claim benefits and live an easy life, why doesn’t everyone do it?

Because we don’t all have a compass like jack sparrows 🤔

 

[martin2412]

In the purest sense it is socialism though.
Trying to make everyone equal just makes everyone poor.

That's right.
It's typical of commies to try to take money off those who have had the foresight to invest or save, in order to live comfortably in their later years, so they can give it to those who spunked it up the wall.

 

[HKOwen]

Ok, WFA was not means tested for every pensioner, as it should be.

You have posted about the inequality of wealth in the UKL, are you suugessting there should be equalityh of wealth, that would mean everyone would have the same wealth.

Even in communist centrally controlled economies there is inequality so how can there be equality in a country with democratic elections?

If yoiu want to improve your finances get a better job, if you are not qualified for a betyter job then study or train to be able to get a better job.

If you are genuinely unable to work then society can help you , key word here obviously is genuine.

We have reached a stage where people can have a decent living without working by choice, that is not only morally wrong but unsustainable economically.

The more people in work the more in the pot to better improve the lot of those that can't.

There are now many whose attitude is if they can play the system they will, when I was entering the workforce not having a job was unusual and anyone was a complete sponger was criticised not tolerated

That's how the world works.

 

[HKOwen]

Ok, WFA was not means tested for every pensioner, as it should be.

Have you any basic idea of what the means test would cost? which is ther main reason it is not done

I agree that better off pensioners may not need the WFA but there are plenty in the trap of living in a home that has gone up in value but having little or no income.

There must be an easier way to choose a cut off point

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I don't understand the point here. Those who've worked all their life, raised a family and paid off their mortgage after 25 years of struggling should move out to provide somewhere for someone else to live? Well, guess what? Life is hard for working people. Is this news? If it is then wake up and lower your expectations.
Think of all those inheritances coming down the line. No one I know ever got left a bean because their families didn't have anything to leave after a lifetime of work.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You have posted about the inequality of wealth in the UKL, are you suugessting there should be equalityh of wealth, that would mean everyone would have the same wealth.

Even in communist centrally controlled economies there is inequality so how can there be equality in a country with democratic elections?

If yoiu want to improve your finances get a better job, if you are not qualified for a betyter job then study or train to be able to get a better job.

If you are genuinely unable to work then society can help you , key word here obviously is genuine.

We have reached a stage where people can have a decent living without working by choice, that is not only morally wrong but unsustainable economically.

The more people in work the more in the pot to better improve the lot of those that can't.

There are now many whose attitude is if they can play the system they will, when I was entering the workforce not having a job was unusual and anyone was a complete sponger was criticised not tolerated

That's how the world works.

No.

 

[Badger11]

Starmer's welfare reform bill is now a waste of space. He would have been better off withdrawing it. Reading a variety of papers today most agree that it's not going to make any savings which was the main point.

Welfare is out of control and hard decisions have to be made. I recently read that the number of people who now receive a free car under the disability scheme has quadrupled in as many years. On top of this local councils are now paying 50% more for taking specials needs kids to school that cost is now 2bn.

They need to get a grip and Starmer has blown it.

 

[NEILLO]

Starmer's welfare reform bill is now a waste of space. He would have been better off withdrawing it. Reading a variety of papers today most agree that it's not going to make any savings which was the main point.

Welfare is out of control and hard decisions have to be made. I recently read that the number of people who now receive a free car under the disability scheme has quadrupled in as many years. On top of this local councils are now paying 50% more for taking specials needs kids to school that cost is now 2bn.

They need to get a grip and Starmer has blown it.

And part of the reform bill was to get people back into work - I believe I heard it described as giving people the dignity to earn and support themselves.

That's fine although we know there is a percentage of people that have no intention of working. But those who do want to work are going to find it increasingly difficult as the job market is contracting, in part because of the Governments increase in employers NI and the other rights recently given to workers.

I don't underestimate how hard it is to get this much needed reform to work. But I don't think Starmer is doing a good job of it.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Starmer's welfare reform bill is now a waste of space. He would have been better off withdrawing it. Reading a variety of papers today most agree that it's not going to make any savings which was the main point.

Welfare is out of control and hard decisions have to be made. I recently read that the number of people who now receive a free car under the disability scheme has quadrupled in as many years. On top of this local councils are now paying 50% more for taking specials needs kids to school that cost is now 2bn.

They need to get a grip and Starmer has blown it.

The bill achieves nothing now but it does commit to accepting the recommendations of the review that will be undertaken by Stephen Timms in conjunction with the representatives of disability organisations. So change remains on the horizon.

It’s definitely needed. Something that there seems to be general agreement on but with no one yet ready to walk the hard political miles.

The car motability scheme is a prime example. When I changed my car a few months back I was staggered to see the number of 2 year old cars on forecourts, with low mileage, and more staggered as to why. It seems 25% of all new car sales are now via the motabilty scheme, with them being traded on and replaced every couple of years. All you have to do to qualify is be on a variety of benefits, including PIP.

In some ways this was a triumph for democracy as the MPs showed who is really in charge but it was also a disaster for common sense.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I'm always astonished when people have faith in governments.

I am always astonished when people think there is any alternative. Other than anarchy of course. Good luck with that.

 

[georgenorman]

I am always astonished when people think there is any alternative. Other than anarchy of course. Good luck with that.

Not Anarchy at all, but cutting back of government to essentials and leaving as much as possible to people and the market place.

 

[georgenorman]

The bill achieves nothing now but it does commit to accepting the recommendations of the review that will be undertaken by Stephen Timms in conjunction with the representatives of disability organisations. So change remains on the horizon.

It’s definitely needed. Something that there seems to be general agreement on but with no one yet ready to walk the hard political miles.

The car motability scheme is a prime example. When I changed my car a few months back I was staggered to see the number of 2 year old cars on forecourts, with low mileage, and more staggered as to why. It seems 25% of all new car sales are now via the motabilty scheme, with them being traded on and replaced every couple of years. All you have to do to qualify is be on a variety of benefits, including PIP.

In some ways this was a triumph for democracy as the MPs showed who is really in charge but it was also a disaster for common sense.

It is merely the fruits of the mad policies and approach to government that the likes of you champion.

 

[Badger11]

It is merely the fruits of the mad policies and approach to government that the likes of you champion.

Is that a can I hear being kicked down the road?

 

[beak]

The recent Welfare bill changes were very small beer compared to the evisceration of the Tory party over Europe.Labour in comparison behaved in a very orderly fashion,proposal, debate,compromise,settlement.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Not Anarchy at all, but cutting back of government to essentials and leaving as much as possible to people and the market place.

So you do have faith in governments!

So long as they do what you want! Which is very Victorian in concept. You need to define essentials.

Presumably no welfare at all. No NHS. No BBC. Workhouses for the poor and disabled.