Israel v Hamas

Spindle said:
Insurgents weren't in the hospitals.

The Geneva Conventions make clear that a hospital may lose its protections under international humanitarian law if it is used to commit “acts harmful to the enemy”, i.e. if it is taken over by enemy combatants to launch military attacks.

I'm amazed that you don't understand this.

Are you confirming that you consider Gaza to be a foreign state?
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Another question unanswered...

Reliant on fundamental dishonesty.
 
Spindle said:
Insurgents weren't in the hospitals.

The Geneva Conventions make clear that a hospital may lose its protections under international humanitarian law if it is used to commit “acts harmful to the enemy”, i.e. if it is taken over by enemy combatants to launch military attacks.

I'm amazed that you don't understand this.

Are you confirming that you consider Gaza to be a foreign state?
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This is true however, even if a hospital loses its protected status, civilians and medical personnel within it, including the wounded and sick, continue to be protected under international humanitarian law.

I don’t suppose for a moment that any hospital itself has responsibility for Hamas using its premises.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
This an extension of no logic whatsoever.

You're struggling today 🤣
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The only logic relevant here is how Israel tackles the prospect of a forever war where it's people are in daily threat of attacks without end.

You know exactly why all this is happening, but you continue your futile hand wringing exercise simply to make yourself feel virtuous.

Do you seriously believe that anyone on this site wants to see women and children blown to bits?

Well, maybe some of the far left on here wouldn't care if it were Jews.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
The only logic relevant here is how Israel tackles the prospect of a forever war where it's people are in daily threat of attacks without end.

You know exactly why all this is happening, but you continue your futile hand wringing exercise simply to make yourself feel virtuous.

Do you seriously believe that anyone on this site wants to see women and children blown to bits?

Well, maybe some of the far left on here wouldn't care if it were Jews.
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Israel are perfectly capable of defending their borders. Before October 7th, many more Palestinians were killed by Israel each year than the other way round.

From 2009-2022, there was an average of 4-8 Israeli deaths per year caused by Hamas - it doesn't sound like much of an existential threat to me.

I'm again going to highlight that my 'virtuous' position is the one shared by the overwhelming majority of people - recent YouGov polling suggests only 12% of people still view Israel's conduct as a reasonable response to October 7th. Your position is very much the fringe one.

I don't think anyone wants to see women and children blown to bits, but I think many are pretty indifferent about it when they are Muslim women and children.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Israel are perfectly capable of defending their borders. Before October 7th, many more Palestinians were killed by Israel each year than the other way round.

From 2009-2022, there was an average of 4-8 Israeli deaths per year caused by Hamas - it doesn't sound like much of an existential threat to me.

I'm again going to highlight that my 'virtuous' position is the one shared by the overwhelming majority of people - recent YouGov polling suggests only 12% of people still view Israel's conduct as a reasonable response to October 7th. Your position is very much the fringe one.

I don't think anyone wants to see women and children blown to bits, but I think many are pretty indifferent about it when they are Muslim women and children.
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The destruction of Israel is Hamas policy, you're saying that as they weren't able to murder as many in previous years to Oct 7th they are not as bad as Israel make out.

You think Hamas get an unfair press in Israel.

Have you by any chance ever been on a anti Israel march in London waving a Socialist Worker placard?
 
HKOwen said:
The destruction of Israel is Hamas policy, you're saying that as they weren't able to murder as many in previous years to Oct 7th they are not as bad as Israel make out.

You think Hamas get an unfair press in Israel.

Have you by any chance ever been on a anti Israel march in London waving a Socialist Worker placard?
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Your comprehension is horrific.

I'm saying exactly what I said; Israel are perfectly capable of defending their borders from Hamas.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Your comprehension is horrific.

I'm saying exactly what I said; Israel are perfectly capable of defending their borders from Hamas.
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They may well be but from their perspective they're surrounded by potentially hostile groups so their policy is to react as strongly as possible to deter future attacks.
 
Teddy Eagle said:
They may well be but from their perspective they're surrounded by potentially hostile groups so their policy is to react as strongly as possible to deter future attacks.
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Sure, but obviously their perspective and desired military policy doesn't permit them to do whatever they want.

As opposed to deterring future attacks, this course of action is a sure way to guarantee another generation or two of radicalised Palestinians.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Israel are perfectly capable of defending their borders. Before October 7th, many more Palestinians were killed by Israel each year than the other way round.

From 2009-2022, there was an average of 4-8 Israeli deaths per year caused by Hamas - it doesn't sound like much of an existential threat to me.

I'm again going to highlight that my 'virtuous' position is the one shared by the overwhelming majority of people - recent YouGov polling suggests only 12% of people still view Israel's conduct as a reasonable response to October 7th. Your position is very much the fringe one.

I don't think anyone wants to see women and children blown to bits, but I think many are pretty indifferent about it when they are Muslim women and children.
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Thanks to Israel's defensive capabilities.

When that defence was breached with such devastating consequences on October 7, perhaps Israel realised that a more direct and ruthless approach was required to deter any future attacks.

It could also be viewed as using the opportunity to rid itself of more Palestinians, and in the cold light of day it might be the case that the only way to end this forever war is to destroy your enemy to the point where they come begging for surrender.

History will judge Israel. I can only consider my interests.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Sure, but obviously their perspective and desired military policy doesn't permit them to do whatever they want.

As opposed to deterring future attacks, this course of action is a sure way to guarantee another generation or two of radicalised Palestinians.
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You have to suspect that radicalisation is already ingrained.
 
I don't think Starmer will ever recognise Palestinian statehood, it is an Israel first government as we can see from the proscription as a terrorist organisation of a motley protest group, to the extent that it will go along with Israel and Netanyahu's crimes and against international law.

It's much worse in the USA where the Israel lobby rules and of course the UK is a minor player and a declining one, which is perhaps fortunate.

Macron got sustained applause for saying it must happen yesterday, but will he?

It would actually make a difference and make people think there is still something about us, but for a country to go to such lengths to avoid the truth of Israel's continuing genocide against the desperate Palestinian people it is embrrassing and painful to observe.

Personally a relief that I didn't vote or him, or them, and that includes the others.

If you support Palestinians, and the polling suggests the public do, you only have a few MPs like JC on your side.

MPs have their inflated salaries and mortgages to think about, a sad fact of life.

😎
 
steeleye20 said:
I don't think Starmer will ever recognise Palestinian statehood, it is an Israel first government as we can see from the proscription as a terrorist organisation of a motley protest group, to the extent that it will go along with Israel and Netanyahu's crimes and against international law.

It's much worse in the USA where the Israel lobby rules and of course the UK is a minor player and a declining one, which is perhaps fortunate.

Macron got sustained applause for saying it must happen yesterday, but will he?

It would actually make a difference and make people think there is still something about us, but for a country to go to such lengths to avoid the truth of Israel's continuing genocide against the desperate Palestinian people it is embrrassing and painful to observe.

Personally a relief that I didn't vote or him, or them, and that includes the others.

If you support Palestinians, and the polling suggests the public do, you only have a few MPs like JC on your side.

MPs have their inflated salaries and mortgages to think about, a sad fact of life.

😎
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At leasts you have the honesty not to hide you jew hate behind semantics, kudos for that
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Sure, but obviously their perspective and desired military policy doesn't permit them to do whatever they want.

As opposed to deterring future attacks, this course of action is a sure way to guarantee another generation or two of radicalised Palestinians.
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You think without this war they would suddenly accept Israel and Jews. It’s why it started.
You dream !
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
No one is suggesting Israel doesn’t have a need to defend itself, even if the capacity of Hamas must be seriously weakened at the moment. Responding as Israel has will hardly have developed any love for them in the hearts of those children who survive having seen their parents and siblings blown to pieces. So strengthening future security is going to be essential.

The responsibility that Israel itself holds for the apparent, but questionable, lack of preparedness on Oct 7 is a subject that deserves greater discussion.
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You don't seem to understand what happens in the Gazan schools then. I'm not convinced seeing horror would make any difference to their views on the Jew
 
Spindle said:
You don't seem to understand what happens in the Gazan schools then. I'm not convinced seeing horror would make any difference to their views on the Jew
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I have never been to Gaza, have you?

I have though been to the West Bank, as well as Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Haifa. Not though in any schools. The possibility for Jews and Arabs to coexist definitely exists though among those with the right mind set. Of which there seem many more than might be expected.

So I am not so pessimistic as you seem to be. It would take time and effort but with shared goals and leadership it could be done.
 
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