Israel v Hamas

[silvertop]

Maybe it's because Israel are fighting a war against terrorist groups who have declared us as enemies. Just a thought.

No. More towing the line with the US who in turn must appeal to their evangelical base.

I suspect Lefty Lammy has to speak with his fingers crossed behind his back.

 

[indianapalace85]

It's very simple.

Hamas decided to commit an awful act on October 7th.

What SHOULD have happened, if any war is allowed to, is a PROPORTIONATE response.

They had that proportionate response and more the very next day.
We then allowed Israel some leeway under the pretence that Hamas were hiding in schools/hospitals etc.

That SHOULD have been the end of it.

There then comes a point where Isreal are using this excuses AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN...

Isn't in convenient that the populaton within the Hamas terrorist group just so happens to be the same as the Palestinian population in Gaza - because that's the excuse that we're getting.

Hamas are apparently everywhere!... but let's just bomb the sh*t out of every Palestinian home ensuring all men, woman and children are bombed or burned alive.

Reporters have been murdered.
Aid workers have been murdered.
They murdered ambulance personnel pretending they were terrorists and unmarked - until a video released proved they were again lying through their teeth.
Why? Because Israel has no regard for humanitarian laws or any rules of war.

The ICC (which is an independent body, declaring Putin and Hamas both culpable of war crimes) have declared Netanyahu culpable of war crimes and genocide)

So why do Netanyahu and Israel get a free pass? Because the West is funding this barbarism. We are selling arms to Israel and training the corrupt IDF on our own turf.

This IS Genocide. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot. This is systematic ethnic cleansing to the end goal of wiping out Palaestinians from the map. These are war crimes with genocide being front and centre.

It doesn't suit our political agenda, hence why the US and UK don't give a flying f*ck.

Gary Lineker was right, the folks at Glastonbury are right. Anyone with any conscience left is right.

F*ck Israel and f*ck the UK for being complicit in this.

Starmer should also be charged for being complicit in these war crimes by funding terrorists.

I've never been more ashamed to be British than right now.

 

[Spindle]

Whether I am OK or not is neither here nor there.

Also, it has less to do with the emotional/political impact of the words.

One was made during rioting, related to specific acts of rioters against hotels etc. where immigrants lived and was judged to make it worse and put those people at risk.

The other has no perceived impact at all save it upset a lot of people.

If you want to receive an argument of the type you have just made, does this mean you support the violent attack by vigilante mobs on hotels and hostels occupied by asylum seekers?

To the last point no, but aside that whataboutery is it not "the left" who cancel everyone they can because they've managed to endorse a mentality where it's not what is said but who is offended, which you seem to uphold.

Well, I'm offended, Jews are offended. So it's a crime

 

[Spindle]

Right, and not one person has said 'if civilians are killed, it must be a genocide'.

Except for Gaza

 

[Spindle]

How many genocide experts are there in the world at the moment ? Is there a list we can refer to?

Seems you know all of them and their expert opinions

Of course not, I have highlighted in bold the nonsense part of your post.


This is purely speculation on your part yet you write is as if factual.

They are genocide experts if they agree it's genocide, otherwise they aren't. That's what I am seeing here, with quotes.

 

[Spindle]

You haven't answered - who is counting the population for you to know it's increasing? Do you think they're just popping a census round in between airstrikes? How can that data possibly be reliable or accurate?

Funny enough, what you personally consider genocide is entirely irrelevant - I am far more interested in what experts in the field consider it to be, and they are unanimous in their agreement. I don't know what credentials you have to suggest you know better than them.

Equally, you don't know it's decreasing either. Palestine women are baby machines thanks to the equality of Islam

 

[Spindle]

A little over 1000 Israelis killed on October 7th 2022.

A conservatively estimated 60,000 plus Palestinians bombed, shot, starved etc. by Israel since then.

The first is an atrocity committed by terrorists. I suspect we are as one on that.

What would you call the second?

And please do not cop out by challenging the numbers. Let us say it is half the number of dead Palestinians. Even Israel would not challenge e.g. 30,000.

Yet on Oct 8 they were dancing in the streets and spending on the credit cards of dead jews

 

[CPFCSaturn]

They are genocide experts if they agree it's genocide, otherwise they aren't. That's what I am seeing here, with quotes.

So again, please source the people/experts/anyone credible who doesn't think it's a genocide as your counter.

This stuff is so shamelessly dishonest it's beggars belief - not one poster has downplayed any experts credibility... you haven't provided any.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Except for Gaza

Dishonest again.

Please cite examples of people who claim that this must be a genocide solely because civilians have been killed.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Equally, you don't know it's decreasing either. Palestine women are baby machines thanks to the equality of Islam

This is the quality of the argument now left in defence of Israel.

 

[indianapalace85]

This is the quality of the argument now left in defence of Israel.

You're wasting time mate.

Clearly Spindle has no facts at all and is just on the wind-up and/or completely deluded with no moral compass.

Anyone with a concience cannot defend Israel.

I have a friend in Isreal that's still out there and he said almost everyone he knows is appalled by what Isreal are doing and he said of course it's a genocide.

 

[Spindle]

Dishonest again.

Please cite examples of people who claim that this must be a genocide solely because civilians have been killed.

Eh? That's exactly what they are whining about. Are you telling us it's genocide because Hamas are targeted then? If it's not them, it's the civilians.

The official definition of genocide, according to the UN's Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, is any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group as such: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group, or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. This definition is central to international law and criminal responsibility.

In my own view it fails on the group , because they aren't a nation, nor religion or unique ethnicity. But aside that I think this definition is ludicrous because it would scoop up every single war. And finally, if this is the definition then the IDF are failing if that's the intention.

Meanwhile, Hamas and Palestinians commited genocide.

 

[Spindle]

This is the quality of the argument now left in defence of Israel.

Which you raised. It's you making the claims on population reduction and now thrown back at you you are saying there's no way of measuring. Laughable.

 

[Spindle]

You're wasting time mate.

Clearly Spindle has no facts at all and is just on the wind-up and/or completely deluded with no moral compass.

Anyone with a concience cannot defend Israel.

I have a friend in Isreal that's still out there and he said almost everyone he knows is appalled by what Isreal are doing and he said of course it's a genocide.

I have a friend in Israel who is terrified of Hamas surviving. He's been into Gaza in 05. I have another who is a Christian, also terrified of Hamas.

I've explained my position so don't jump to conclusions just because I'm not buying the propaganda that the flag waving useful idiots are pumping out

 

[Penge Eagle]

You haven't answered - who is counting the population for you to know it's increasing? Do you think they're just popping a census round in between airstrikes? How can that data possibly be reliable or accurate?

Funny enough, what you personally consider genocide is entirely irrelevant - I am far more interested in what experts in the field consider it to be, and they are unanimous in their agreement. I don't know what credentials you have to suggest you know better than them.

Counting the population argument can be used against you also.

Ah the "experts" - they're always right aren't they. 😂

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Which you raised. It's you making the claims on population reduction and now thrown back at you you are saying there's no way of measuring. Laughable.

I’m genuinely not sure if you’re deliberately dishonest or just a bit slow, but it’s clearly one of the two.

You have held the ‘population increasing’ as the pillar of your belief that this is not a genocide multiple times now - I highlighted that there is obviously no way any population count at this stage can be remotely accurate.

I have made precisely 0 claims about the current population levels in Gaza. I have only highlighted that tens of thousands have been killed by the IDF.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Counting the population argument can be used against you also.

Ah the "experts" - they're always right aren't they. 😂

It’s getting weaker and weaker.

Again, I have made no claims about the population beyond the fact that tens of thousands of civilians are dead.

Yes, people who have spent their lives studying things are worth listening to.

Obviously sticking in your fingers in your ears is preferable to some.

 

[Penge Eagle]

It's very simple.

Hamas decided to commit an awful act on October 7th.

What SHOULD have happened, if any war is allowed to, is a PROPORTIONATE response.

They had that proportionate response and more the very next day.
We then allowed Israel some leeway under the pretence that Hamas were hiding in schools/hospitals etc.

That SHOULD have been the end of it.

There then comes a point where Isreal are using this excuses AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN...

Isn't in convenient that the populaton within the Hamas terrorist group just so happens to be the same as the Palestinian population in Gaza - because that's the excuse that we're getting.

Hamas are apparently everywhere!... but let's just bomb the sh*t out of every Palestinian home ensuring all men, woman and children are bombed or burned alive.

Reporters have been murdered.
Aid workers have been murdered.
They murdered ambulance personnel pretending they were terrorists and unmarked - until a video released proved they were again lying through their teeth.
Why? Because Israel has no regard for humanitarian laws or any rules of war.

The ICC (which is an independent body, declaring Putin and Hamas both culpable of war crimes) have declared Netanyahu culpable of war crimes and genocide)

So why do Netanyahu and Israel get a free pass? Because the West is funding this barbarism. We are selling arms to Israel and training the corrupt IDF on our own turf.

This IS Genocide. Anyone that says otherwise is an idiot. This is systematic ethnic cleansing to the end goal of wiping out Palaestinians from the map. These are war crimes with genocide being front and centre.

It doesn't suit our political agenda, hence why the US and UK don't give a flying f*ck.

Gary Lineker was right, the folks at Glastonbury are right. Anyone with any conscience left is right.

F*ck Israel and f*ck the UK for being complicit in this.

Starmer should also be charged for being complicit in these war crimes by funding terrorists.

I've never been more ashamed to be British than right now.

It's funny how only the Jews are supposed to respond proportionally in war. How does that work in reality? What were they supposed to do?

The ICC has not found Israel or Netanyahu guilty of anything. There was not one Jew in Gaza and the population doubled in 20 years. How is that genocide or wiping off a map? Let's not let facts get in the way of bluster and emotion.

And the UK supporting an ally doesn't make them complicet in anything.

 

[Penge Eagle]

It’s getting weaker and weaker.

Again, I have made no claims about the population beyond the fact that tens of thousands of civilians are dead.

Yes, people who have spent their lives studying things are worth listening to.

Obviously sticking in your fingers in your ears is preferable to some.

You have a weak argument because there are academics and legal experts who say there is no genocide in Gaza by any legal terms. A quick Google will give you their names.

 

[silvertop]

To the last point no, but aside that whataboutery is it not "the left" who cancel everyone they can because they've managed to endorse a mentality where it's not what is said but who is offended, which you seem to uphold.

Well, I'm offended, Jews are offended. So it's a crime

A point sadly endorsed in legislation.

I hate cancel culture. You hate cancel culture. Why validate it?