Israel v Hamas

[Stirlingsays]

I said they're not a race or ethnic group, that's the context. They also aren't an individual religious group. The Jews are.

What on earth are you on about? They are literally Arabs....semites, like the Jews, a mix of indigenous Levantine peoples that have always inhabited that area.

 

[Stirlingsays]

So you are joining Steeley and blaming the Jews?

I've just pointed out the history of the place nothing more.

It's not a question of blaming Jews.

You seem to have this idea that Palestinians can just accept what happened to them.

 

[HKOwen]

The point is that the concept of Palestine as nation, and therefore, Palestinians being citizens of Palestine is only something that emerged post 1948. The Palestine Mandate was a political construct.

 

[Spindle]

What on earth are you on about? They are literally Arabs....semites, like the Jews, a mix of indigenous Levantine peoples that have always inhabited that area.

A mix of Arabs from all over the Arab regions, not one area, some indigenous but mostly from immigrant ancestry, not a nation, and not an individual religious group.

Why are you arguing, I've been pretty clear about this. That's why I call it out Palestine as made up and new, when they are just Israeli Arabs

 

[Spindle]

It's not a question of blaming Jews.

You seem to have this idea that Palestinians can just accept what happened to them.

I don't know how you draw this conclusion. I have said that they would get what is coming to them for their behaviour and actions. That doesn't mean I relish any of it. I've already said they should have a state, and yes, they should accept it.

You seem to say that Ukraine should accept getting taken over by Russia, but they are at least a sovereign state with a language and unique culture.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The point is that the concept of Palestine as nation, and therefore, Palestinians being citizens of Palestine is only something that emerged post 1948. The Palestine Mandate was a political construct.

Why is that concept important?

The Jews didn't have a nation for the best part of two thousand years.....did that mean they weren't worthy of the same rights as any other group?

 

[Spindle]

Meanwhile the protesters are showing their true colours. They'd rather back terrorists and those involved in military sabotage than this nation.

Met Police chief 'shocked' by planned Palestine Action protest in London - BBC News

The force says it cannot legally stop Monday's protest in support of the pro-Palestine group.

www.bbc.com

They cannot differentiate between protest and sabotage or anti-Semitism. I question their citizenship.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I don't know how you draw this conclusion. I have said that they would get what is coming to them for their behaviour and actions. That doesn't mean I relish any of it. I've already said they should have a state, and yes, they should accept it.

While I'd say the majority of any people just want to get along in life and aren't involved in what leaderships do....so I don't know about deserving punishment....just as I don't deserve to be punished for what Starmer does....other than that I do tend to agree with you.

From Israel's perspective that state can't be in its current location....and from a practical perspective I don't think it can be now.

It doesn't make it right though.

You seem to say that Ukraine should accept getting taken over by Russia, but they are at least a sovereign state with a language and unique culture.

Never said that, I have no problem with Ukraine fighting if that's the pathway it chose....(which it didn't democratically but that's something else). My issue has always been how we got here...because as with covid it's been lies and insults against the truth and the other issue I have is the unwise choice of continuing the war.

 

[Stirlingsays]

A mix of Arabs from all over the Arab regions, not one area, some indigenous but mostly from immigrant ancestry, not a nation, and not an individual religious group.

The Jews are a mix as well.....literally twelve tribes, also including converts and admixures...in some cases heavily...it's no different.

The Palestinians never left Palestine.

Why are you arguing, I've been pretty clear about this. That's why I call it out Palestine as made up and new, when they are just Israeli Arabs

Because I disagree with you, I think it's a nonsense point. Rubber stamping the name of a nation doesn't make a difference to whether an ethnic group exists or not. It's the people and what they are.

 

[Spindle]

The Jews are a mix as well.....literally twelve tribes, also including converts and admixures...in some cases heavily...it's no different.

The Palestinians never left Palestine.



Because I disagree with you, I think it's a nonsense point. Rubber stamping the name of a nation doesn't make a difference to whether an ethnic group exists or not. It's the people and what they are.

I think you've found something not there, and really pressed it.

I was arguing that they are not an ethnic group , nation or religion, not whether or they should have a state or not which I already said they should multiple times, unlike the Jews who are.... Jews in their own right.

Some posters are saying that they are "Palestinian", I said it's made up. You've spent energy arguing some point I didn't make and ended up effectively agreeing that they made it all up.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think you've found something not there, and really pressed it.

I was arguing that they are not an ethnic group , nation or religion, not whether or they should have a state or not which I already said they should multiple times, unlike the Jews who are.... Jews in their own right.

Some posters are saying that they are "Palestinian", I said it's made up. You've spent energy arguing some point I didn't make and ended up effectively agreeing that they made it all up.

So indigenous Levantine peoples who have lived in the area for thousands of years aren't an ethnic group?

Dude...

 

[Penge Eagle]

So indigenous Levantine peoples who have lived in the area for thousands of years aren't an ethnic group?

Dude...

Under the Ottoman Empire, there were Jews, Arab Muslims, Arab Christians, plus smaller communities of Druze, Armenians, Greeks, Circassians on the land. There was no idea of a nation state or national identity then, their loyalty was to tribes, religion and the local area. Their identity as "Palestinian" is a 20th century idea. Palestine was only used by the West as a geographical term to describe the southern part of the Levant.

 

[Spindle]

So indigenous Levantine peoples who have lived in the area for thousands of years aren't an ethnic group?

Dude...

It's not unique to them, the Jews share many of the same genes.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Under the Ottoman Empire, there were Jews, Arab Muslims, Arab Christians, plus smaller communities of Druze, Armenians, Greeks, Circassians on the land. There was no idea of a nation state or national identity then, their loyalty was to tribes, religion and the local area. Their identity as "Palestinian" is a 20th century idea.

They were the same people living in that area for thousands of years.....Arabs came along with Islam in the 7th century....so they are heavily mixed in with Arab.

The Jews have had a massive admixure of European genes over the best part of two thousand years from multiple types, Netty is probably just as German as he is Jewish.....but most Jews were Eastern European.

I read about some Jews who have gone back to Poland because they felt it more their ancestral home, which for some Jews makes sense.....obviously most Jews are in America.

It's a moot point.

Both are ethnic groups.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It's not unique to them, the Jews share many of the same genes.

I have a respect for 'might is right'....but if we are going to take the genes argument then the Jews are obviously going to have less a percent of geographically related genes because of the nearly two thousand year exile to mostly Europe....though not exclusively Europe.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

killing is my business

and business is good

 

[Spindle]

I have a respect for 'might is right'....but if we are going to take the genes argument then the Jews are obviously going to have less a percent of geographically related genes because of the nearly two thousand year exile to mostly Europe....though not exclusively Europe.

Yup, they certainly imported plenty in 1948. But they are a unique religious group.

Palestine is a late invention as I described, and I described how I think they should have a state too

 

[ASCPFC]

killing is my business

and business is good

Bloody Ryanair

 

[Stirlingsays]

Yup, they certainly imported plenty in 1948. But they are a unique religious group.

Palestine is a late invention as I described, and I described how I think they should have a state too

I'm Brian and so is my wife.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Who threw that ?

SHE DID !, he did ! , he did !.

Are there any women here today ?