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Israel v Hamas

This is the picture that sums it up best.

Two sides of the same problem. Both would kill an infinite number of people to further their cause. Sadly, their cause is mostly about the hatred of the other.


Bele_and_Lokai.webp
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
You are making yourself sound like a Jew hater.

The Holocaust is causative in this situation, whether you like it or not.
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Forgive me if that allegation has lost any sort of meaning.

The Holocaust is not relevant to, or excusatory of, Israel's current conduct, which is what I'm discussing - people referencing it to try and morally posture, while they actively support the mass murder of children, deserve ridicule.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Forgive me if that allegation has lost any sort of meaning.

The Holocaust is not relevant to, or excusatory of, Israel's current conduct, which is what I'm discussing - people referencing it to try and morally posture, while they actively support the mass murder of children, deserve ridicule.
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You could be describing the British government, and it is shameful and will have consequences as Jeremy Bowen is pointing out, especially if found to have supplied arms that Israel used to destroy innocent civilians.
 
steeleye20 said:
You could be describing the British government, and it is shameful and will have consequences as Jeremy Bowen is pointing out, especially if found to have supplied arms that Israel used to destroy innocent civilians.
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I already explained the facts of this: the UK barely exports any arms to Israel. They have also reviewed what is being exported and cancelled the licences if there is a risk of British equipment being used in a way which might violate international law.
You might want Britain to do more but they are not complicit in the current killing. However, perhaps you think Lammy would favour Israel over Palestine. I think we all know the answer there.
The total amounts currently are something like 18 million pounds. Much less than one percent of Israeli arms imports. It's mainly spare parts for aircraft where Turkey or India don't have them. You want to complain about something, hard facts for you: biggest arms supplier to Israel obviously USA, second biggest Germany, Turkey and India are also large defence suppliers to Israel. Perhaps you'd like to castigate them? I find the Turkish one rather ironic, but clearly they'll do anything for money.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Forgive me if that allegation has lost any sort of meaning.

The Holocaust is not relevant to, or excusatory of, Israel's current conduct, which is what I'm discussing - people referencing it to try and morally posture, while they actively support the mass murder of children, deserve ridicule.
Click to expand...
The current situation is a direct result of the Holocaust.
We get Israel, then we get its expansion in a region where everyone else hates Jews.

The two are inseparable. What we are seeing now is a consequence of Hitler and subsequent bad decision making by the allies, albeit under extraordinary circumstances.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
The current situation is a direct result of the Holocaust.
We get Israel, then we get its expansion in a region where everyone else hates Jews.

The two are inseparable. What we are seeing now is a consequence of Hitler and subsequent bad decision making by the allies, albeit under extraordinary circumstances.
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Ok but that wasn't remotely the point being made, was it?

Your response to me not buying the moral posturing of the TT was to suggest it must mean I hate Jews.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Ok but that wasn't remotely the point being made, was it?

Your response to me not buying the moral posturing of the TT was to suggest it must mean I hate Jews.
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You don't come across as very fond of them.
 
ASCPFC said:
I already explained the facts of this: the UK barely exports any arms to Israel. They have also reviewed what is being exported and cancelled the licences if there is a risk of British equipment being used in a way which might violate international law.
You might want Britain to do more but they are not complicit in the current killing. However, perhaps you think Lammy would favour Israel over Palestine. I think we all know the answer there.
The total amounts currently are something like 18 million pounds. Much less than one percent of Israeli arms imports. It's mainly spare parts for aircraft where Turkey or India don't have them. You want to complain about something, hard facts for you: biggest arms supplier to Israel obviously USA, second biggest Germany, Turkey and India are also large defence suppliers to Israel. Perhaps you'd like to castigate them? I find the Turkish one rather ironic, but clearly they'll do anything for money.
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No, 15% of an F35 jet is British, and they were used by Israel in breaking the ceasefire and throughout the slaughter, and its an art form for British manufacturers to disguise weapons as integrated into other supplies.

I think most people would assume the UK government is lying and complicit, as I do, there is no trust in them.

A 'roget's theosaurus' of lies, more lies and even more lies.

For the UK, palestinian lives are expendable, Israelis are not.

Sir Keir's appearance on LBC, where he said that Israel was entitled to defend itself by denying water food and electricity to civilians, look what has happened, and it has been the UK governments attitude throughout.
 
steeleye20 said:
No, 15% of an F35 jet is British, and they were used by Israel in breaking the ceasefire and throughout the slaughter, and its an art form for British manufacturers to disguise weapons as integrated into other supplies.

I think most people would assume the UK government is lying and complicit, as I do, there is no trust in them.

A 'roget's theosaurus' of lies, more lies and even more lies.

For the UK, palestinian lives are expendable, Israelis are not.

Sir Keir's appearance on LBC, where he said that Israel was entitled to defend itself by denying water food and electricity to civilians, look what has happened, and it has been the UK governments attitude throughout.
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Fair enough. I posted the facts and had already researched it previously. I knew as a former defence analyst that Britain doesn't supply Israel much anymore. They used to - but it would be almost historical now. F35s are American and parts are cheaper from other places - as I've basically stated. Slate Germany, India and Turkey if you like. Less than 1% and going down as we speak.
It's more telling about how the UK's defence industry is falling behind than anything else. Whilst others are expanding.
If you complained about Yemen, then you would be more correct. That originates in Thatcher's deal with the Saudis for aircraft. However, it will be the US from now onwards. I'm not thinking that Labour are that pro-Israel but maybe I'm wrong. I realise it's not Corbyn.
 
ASCPFC said:
Fair enough. I posted the facts and had already researched it previously. I knew as a former defence analyst that Britain doesn't supply Israel much anymore. They used to - but it would be almost historical now. F35s are American and parts are cheaper from other places - as I've basically stated. Slate Germany, India and Turkey if you like. Less than 1% and going down as we speak.
It's more telling about how the UK's defence industry is falling behind than anything else. Whilst others are expanding.
If you complained about Yemen, then you would be more correct. That originates in Thatcher's deal with the Saudis for aircraft. However, it will be the US from now onwards. I'm not thinking that Labour are that pro-Israel but maybe I'm wrong. I realise it's not Corbyn.
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If it was Corbyn, AS, then we would have no involvement in this atall, and would be supplying humanitarian aid instead.

Over the years I actually think his position has been vindicated.

Where have all these senseless wars got humanity, winning is undefinable but nothing stops the appetite for mindless destruction.

😎
 
steeleye20 said:
If it was Corbyn, AS, then we would have no involvement in this atall, and would be supplying humanitarian aid instead.

Over the years I actually think his position has been vindicated.

Where have all these senseless wars got humanity, winning is undefinable but nothing stops the appetite for mindless destruction.

😎
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If it was Corbyn, we would probably be sending troops to fight for Hamas - well, those he could spare from guarding the re-education camps.
 
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So the person who was central to organising Greta's boat trip is

Zahar Birawi
1749485565341.webp

And he is apprently allowed to live in London, and he's a fundraiser for Hamas. He is quoted as saying on October 7th "blessed morning".
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Ok but that wasn't remotely the point being made, was it?

Your response to me not buying the moral posturing of the TT was to suggest it must mean I hate Jews.
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Your language was unfortunate.

I get that you don't want to see women and children blown to bits. Who does?

Unfortunately, this is war and morality doesn't play much of a part.
What does play a part is global politics. The bigger picture cannot be avoided.
 
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