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Israel v Hamas

Stirlingsays said:
War means innocent children and babies die under rubble in the worst ways imaginable.

The only honourable war is one on the battlefield between soldiers in uniform.....and even then the word honourable is debatable considering what you have to do.

Personally my view of Mossad is pretty low and I suspect that select top brass knew that the 7th October was coming.....Collateral damage for the larger aim so to speak.

Having said all that I understand why Netanyahu is doing what he's doing.....The chattering classes and 'pass the sugar' doesn't result in national survival.

If your long term aim is the continuance of Israel certain threats are just going to have to go away because of population birth numbers.......The Arab womb would defeat Israel, even within Israel itself.....Just like the foreign womb is defeating Europe.

The difference being that Israel don't have a ruling class who hate who they are and aren't just going to watch it happen and gaslight their people about it.
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Hmmm.

Netanyahu has run his right wing ticket on security yet has been at the helm for the greatest breach of security in the history of Israel. It's their 911. He's fighting now, violently, because he has screwed up bigtime, fighting for his political future.

But maybe, when the protests against him were ramping up he decided to ignore the tip offs from Egypt about what was coming, he's that much of a piece of s***
 
Spindle said:
Hmmm.

Netanyahu has run his right wing ticket on security yet has been at the helm for the greatest breach of security in the history of Israel. It's their 911. He's fighting now, violently, because he has screwed up bigtime, fighting for his political future.

But maybe, when the protests against him were ramping up he decided to ignore the tip offs from Egypt about what was coming, he's that much of a piece of s***
Click to expand...
Surprised you didn't add an image of a rat.
 
Spindle said:
Hmmm.

Netanyahu has run his right wing ticket on security yet has been at the helm for the greatest breach of security in the history of Israel. It's their 911. He's fighting now, violently, because he has screwed up bigtime, fighting for his political future.

But maybe, when the protests against him were ramping up he decided to ignore the tip offs from Egypt about what was coming, he's that much of a piece of s***
Click to expand...

The way I view it is that Netanyahu only has one way out and that is to take Gaza and deport the Palestinians. I think if he stops now he's toast.....He's probably toast anyway but his only viable way out for himself is victory.....It'll get him protectors for what comes after....Lose and he's fecked either way.

Once you go all in like he has......it's Monte Carlo or bust. Machiavelli wrote centuries ago, that if you are going to harm an adversary you have to finish them off because unless they accept they are defeated and fold they will just never forgive nor forget. It's true for Ukraine, it's true for the Palestinians, us in WW2.....Alexander knew it, The Mongols knew it and the Romans knew it (Hannibal and the Greeks before him didn't).

The risk that one side won't accept defeat until the last man/woman/child is why avoiding war in the first place is so important, but it's a history lesson that rarely is observed.....especially by old men with no danger of going to the combat line themselves.

As for January 7th....Well, I've never believed for one second that the top people in Mossad or Netanyahu didn't know this was coming. Intelligence agencies are dark dark places.

We are all just looking at the screen of the horror movie.
 
Personally I'm of the view that Trump and the Saudis agreed something over Gaza.....it's probably different from old Netty and that's why he gone in as he's running out of time. Or maybe Trump/Saudis have unofficially given him a killing time period left in Gaza before it has to stop, who knows.

What fascinates me is how Trump squares his new position with his donors and the GOP.....and it's interesting how the Democrats react to all this as well.
 
Interesting that few people know that Egypt has at times blocked aid entering Gazs and Egyptian companies have been charging commercial trucks exorbitant fees. But it's not the Jews, so as you were.
 
I'm more right wing than most, though I'm probably a moderate on the DR, however I'm not of the view that the European diaspora should lack humanitarian concern.

I'll be very clear, that does not translate into allowing the third world to arrive into my country to steal a birthright and then be told that they are just as British or English/Scottish/Irish as the people who have lived here for centuries.....It's a lie and a betrayal.

But similarly, in my book, that does not translate into being completely indifferent to human suffering. I'm not going to let people drown in the channel (but I'm also not going to settle them here). When mass populations are exterminated in a war I think it's fine to have an opinion on it....pro Israeli or pro Palestinian.

But ultimately, while opinions are the property of their owners and thus have validity upon that basis, in my view the care of the Palestinians is an Arab issue, not a European one. The Arab position, up to now, appears to be to whine but do nothing explicitly and expect mainly Europeans (which includes America) to solve everything.

It's also nonsense and not how the real world works. The house of Saud have just shown that by shifting Trump's position with the lure of 4 trillion dollars. Money, not virtue signalling makes the world go round.

What, if anything, this means for the final result we are all yet to see.
 
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Penge Eagle said:
Interesting that few people know that Egypt has at times blocked aid entering Gazs and Egyptian companies have been charging commercial trucks exorbitant fees. But it's not the Jews, so as you were.
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Officially, but there will be tunnels that operate from the Egyptian border whether it's with the government's knowledge or not.

One thing we can be sure of though is that Egypt is not a fan of Hamas and don't want a radicalised people on their plate.

Decades ago, Jordan accepted tens of thousands of Palestinians and they ended up trying to overthrow their government.

Israel of course will be pressuring them to accept them by moving the Gazan population into the south.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Interesting that few people know that Egypt has at times blocked aid entering Gazs and Egyptian companies have been charging commercial trucks exorbitant fees. But it's not the Jews, so as you were.
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You read those abhorrent quotes from the Israeli Finance Minister about their latest attempt to ethnically cleanse the land, and your response is to essentially suggest that anyone criticising that must be doing so because he's a Jew.

Utterly shameless.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
You read those abhorrent quotes from the Israeli Finance Minister about their latest attempt to ethnically cleanse the land, and your response is to essentially suggest that anyone criticising that must be doing so because he's a Jew.

Utterly shameless.
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I wasn't talking about that. But seeing as you mention it, I would say that is correct in most cases.
 
i am seeing Palestine flags everywhere.

In the West, its surprising how 'out of touch' the ruling elites are sometimes. There is much support for Israel in many pockets of society.

eurovisionfun.com

Eurovision Voting Controversy Continues | Ireland Requests Detailed Televoting Data - Eurovision News | Music | Fun

RTÉ, Ireland’s national broadcaster, has officially requested a detailed breakdown of the Eurovision voting results from the EBU, following complaints about an unusual surge in televotes in favor of Israel. A similar request was also submitted by Spain’s public broadcaster, RTVE. In the Irish...
eurovisionfun.com eurovisionfun.com

www.irishtimes.com

RTÉ requests breakdown of Eurovision public votes after high points awarded to Israel

Eurovision: Move comes after request from Spain for audit ‘to avoid external interference and manipulation’
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

...or was it all just Bots and gamesmanship ?
 
PalazioVecchio said:
i am seeing Palestine flags everywhere.

In the West, its surprising how 'out of touch' the ruling elites are sometimes. There is much support for Israel in many pockets of society.

eurovisionfun.com

Eurovision Voting Controversy Continues | Ireland Requests Detailed Televoting Data - Eurovision News | Music | Fun

RTÉ, Ireland’s national broadcaster, has officially requested a detailed breakdown of the Eurovision voting results from the EBU, following complaints about an unusual surge in televotes in favor of Israel. A similar request was also submitted by Spain’s public broadcaster, RTVE. In the Irish...
eurovisionfun.com eurovisionfun.com

www.irishtimes.com

RTÉ requests breakdown of Eurovision public votes after high points awarded to Israel

Eurovision: Move comes after request from Spain for audit ‘to avoid external interference and manipulation’
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

...or was it all just Bots and gamesmanship ?
Click to expand...
This is Ireland: I think the government and Rte should have a jolly old full enquiry. Set up a quango - get a few expensive law firms. A couple of TDs. A cross party committee.
In a few years, costing only 18 million euro, they can publish a 90,000 page report on Eurovision voting.
It's quite literally our society's most pressing issue.
Perhaps they'll check on the vote count for Hutch whilst they're at it?
Honourable and true, government for the people of Ireland and anywhere other than here mostly.
Thanks for the free house, free car and free healthcare - oh, I'm not from Nigeria, Georgia or South Africa where all those wars are - so not for me! Oh well, I have a shed out the back to move into sometime. It leaks a bit and I won't actually fit, but it's something. Thanks Harris and Martin - great guys - slap on the back.
 
If the end-game is nearing. And as Stirling says, we don't really know the extent of any Arab involvement.
Will it be the distribution of aid and restoration of state boundaries for the remaining Palestinians ?
Will it be total displacement of the Palestinians (to Arab or European lands) and rebuilding and taking over by Israel of Gaza and West Bank
Or will it just be a continuation of a massive genocide, (either with weapons, or just not giving food and aid.)

And as a footnote, maybe kill some HAMAS, and might get a couple of hostages out alive. Then again, maybe not
 
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