Israel v Hamas

[palace_in_frogland]

Starmer does seem the type to own a Mount Blanc

Corbyn would use a biro whilst Diane Abbott would use a crayon or a pencil so she can use a rubber.

😀

Corbyn, Abbott and a rubber? That’s another story surely?

 

[Stirlingsays]

It depends how you're defining involvement, but certainly I'm not in favour of huge numbers of refugees being relocated here which was the point being discussed.

I'm not sure what you mean by the bit in bold - the topic of Israel/Palestine certainly takes up most of my posts on the forums, but I've had little (if anything) to say about the resulting refugees or Europe's involvement in their relocation..?

Well ok then, why should we be anymore involved in this war than say India is?

What are your thoughts on Palestinian refugees if not to involve Europe? I have a right to be pretty suspicious of anyone coming from the left on this.

Who are we to be involved in this anyway? Like I say all that happens is that you get the blame. As far as I can see our involvement in the middle east (as with Ukraine under US direction) has given us nothing but cost and strife.

The west should have its nose out of the middle east in my view.....Trade and be friendly and stay out of their business.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

This stuff is just so so weird.

You keep telling yourself that.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Well ok then, why should we be anymore involved in this war than say India is?

What are your thoughts on Palestinian refugees if not to involve Europe? I have a right to be pretty suspicious of anyone coming from the left on this.

Who are we to be involved in this anyway? Like I say all that happens is that you get the blame. As far as I can see our involvement in the middle east (as with Ukraine under US direction) has given us nothing but cost and strife.

The west should have its nose out of the middle east in my view.....Trade and be friendly and stay out of their business.

I'm not sure I've argued that Britain should be anymore involved with this war, beyond peace-making efforts and upholding our commitments to international law.

In terms of refugees; obviously the ideal is you don't support another state in displacing hundreds of thousands of them in the first place... but broadly I'd agree with you that at this stage the neighbouring Arab states should bear the brunt of that burden.

I don't particularly disagree with your broader point in our involvement in international conflicts but we're hamstrung by our reliance on the US in that regard.

 

[Penge Eagle]

It depends how you're defining involvement, but certainly I'm not in favour of huge numbers of refugees being relocated here which was the point being discussed.

Why not? Racist! 😀

 

[Stirlingsays]

Hamas are executing people in public in the streets - some for supposed 'collaboration' with Israel. The terrorists are clearly still in control of Gaza. Israel will still need to go back and finish the job.

I'm not for the civilian cost of them effectively doing a biblical killing of all the males in Gaza, because in effect I don't see how they would separate Hamas from non....it being a Vietcong/not Vietcong impossible distinction.

However, Netty stopping here doesn't make any logical sense from his point of view. I'm pretty suspicious of that and I expect something to happen....Essentially I see Gaza going to Israel and most of the Palestinians gone and all that is in doubt is the time-scale.

The Palestinians really do need to get out of there (I say Syria) because in my view....no one is really going to save them.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The US Ambassador to Israel tells a different version

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-10-12/us-envoy-calls-phillipson-delusional-over-claim-uk-played-key-role-in-gaza

The US Ambassador to Israel is Mike Huckabee! Hardly someone who holds an unbiased, objective opinion. Not only is he totally on board with the Netanyahu government’s objectives for Gaza he is 100% a Trump sycophant. I doubt whether he was in the loop whilst the arrangements were being stitched together anymore than Netanyahu was.

Witkoff is not a politician. If he was he probably would not have said what he did because it deflects some of the credit away from Trump. But he did say it, and seemingly from the heart with the ring of truth sounding loud and clear.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I'm not sure I've argued that Britain should be anymore involved with this war, beyond peace-making efforts and upholding our commitments to international law.

In terms of refugees; obviously the ideal is you don't support another state in displacing hundreds of thousands of them in the first place... but broadly I'd agree with you that at this stage the neighbouring Arab states should bear the brunt of that burden.

I don't particularly disagree with your broader point in our involvement in international conflicts but we're hamstrung by our reliance on the US in that regard.

Well, in that case, I can't really say I disagree with you.....though I say we don't need to listen to international law, as most of that was based upon our own systems.

That whole region has been nothing but a nightmare for this country. Ever since our betrayal of the Arabs after WW1 where we didn't give them back control of the land despite promising to, much to Lawrence of Arabia's dismay (though he was always loyal to his country)....to Jewish terrorists eventually kicking us out in 47, killing our soldiers and VIPs....with leaders of those terrorists being rewarded with important state positions later on.

Israel's action in the modern day are the sole ethnic...I meant to say ethical responsibility of the US state (but there's shades of both), which defends it and shields it from consequences. I personally regard the US as compromised. The moral questions of that are there for people to criticise or defend but again as said, this country itself is nothing but a joke in terms of our ability to affect change in the world.

As Trump clearly showed by his humiliation of Starmer recently.....even though I regard the recent talking up of our involvement in this ceasefire as probably ridiculous

Despite being amongst Starmer's biggest critics on here I really did not appreciate that humiliation of our representative.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Well ok then, why should we be anymore involved in this war than say India is?

What are your thoughts on Palestinian refugees if not to involve Europe? I have a right to be pretty suspicious of anyone coming from the left on this.

Who are we to be involved in this anyway? Like I say all that happens is that you get the blame. As far as I can see our involvement in the middle east (as with Ukraine under US direction) has given us nothing but cost and strife.

The west should have its nose out of the middle east in my view.....Trade and be friendly and stay out of their business.

I hope that you tell this to the Zionists in the USA and encourage them to stop pressurising their governments, with campaign finance, to support Israel.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Well, in that case, I can't really say I disagree with you.....though I say we don't need to listen to international law, as most of that was based upon our own systems.

That whole region has been nothing but a nightmare for this country. Ever since our betrayal of the Arabs after WW1 where we didn't give them back control of the land despite promising to, much to Lawrence of Arabia's dismay (though he was always loyal to his country)....to Jewish terrorists eventually kicking us out in 47, killing our soldiers and VIPs....with leaders of those terrorists being rewarded with important state positions later on.

Israel's action in the modern day are the sole ethnic...I meant to say ethical responsibility of the US state (but there's shades of both), which defends it and shields it from consequences. I personally regard the US as compromised. The moral questions of that there for people to criticise or defend but again as said, this country itself is nothing but a joke in terms of our ability to affect change in the world.

As Trump clearly showed by his humiliation of Starmer recently.....even though I regard the recent talking up of our involvement in this ceasefire as probably ridiculous

Despite being amongst Starmer's biggest critics on here I really did not appreciate that humiliation of our representative.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1977711058056892505

 

[Penge Eagle]

I hope that you tell this to the Zionists in the USA and encourage them to stop pressurising their governments, with campaign finance, to support Israel.

That’s not true. US policy on Israel isn’t controlled by "Zionists with campaign money" – that’s an old antisemitic trope. Support for Israel comes from decades of political and strategic ties, not secret influence.

 

[Stirlingsays]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1977711058056892505

I must admit you have to admire Trump's honesty.

He really doesn't give a feck.

It's quite amusing on one level.

Some think he's thick but I think he knows what he's doing.....he just doesn't care.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I must admit you have to admire Trump's honesty.

He really doesn't give a feck.

It's quite amusing on one level.

Some think he's thick but I think he knows what he's doing.....he just doesn't care.

Whatever you think of Trump's politics and personality, he is comedically excellent - genuinely and deliberately hilarious.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Whatever you think of Trump's politics and personality, he is comedically excellent - genuinely and deliberately hilarious.

Yep even here he's having a dig at those applauding him by questioning the loyalty of his main donor.

It's all pretty dark but you have to laugh.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Well, in that case, I can't really say I disagree with you.....though I say we don't need to listen to international law, as most of that was based upon our own systems.

That whole region has been nothing but a nightmare for this country. Ever since our betrayal of the Arabs after WW1 where we didn't give them back control of the land despite promising to, much to Lawrence of Arabia's dismay (though he was always loyal to his country)....to Jewish terrorists eventually kicking us out in 47, killing our soldiers and VIPs....with leaders of those terrorists being rewarded with important state positions later on.

Israel's action in the modern day are the sole ethnic...I meant to say ethical responsibility of the US state (but there's shades of both), which defends it and shields it from consequences. I personally regard the US as compromised. The moral questions of that there for people to criticise or defend but again as said, this country itself is nothing but a joke in terms of our ability to affect change in the world.

As Trump clearly showed by his humiliation of Starmer recently.....even though I regard the recent talking up of our involvement in this ceasefire as probably ridiculous

Despite being amongst Starmer's biggest critics on here I really did not appreciate that humiliation of our representative.

He brought it on himself.
I'm fairly confident that if Trump wanted Starmer to speak, he would have given him the nod beforehand.

Starmer though he could grab some limelight when he was mentioned, but this was Trump's day and Trump wasn't letting anyone else muscle in on it.

Personally, I loved the moment because Starmer does not represent me and certainly doesn't put British people first. He is a scumbag.

 

[Stirlingsays]

He brought it on himself.
I'm fairly confident that if Trump wanted Starmer to speak, he would have given him the nod beforehand.

Starmer though he could grab some limelight when he was mentioned, but this was Trump's day and Trump wasn't letting anyone else muscle in on it.

Personally, I loved the moment because Starmer does not represent me and certainly doesn't put British people first. He is a scumbag.

Well, I certainly don't disagree that Starmer is a scumbag......odious man who will say just about anything.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That’s not true. US policy on Israel isn’t controlled by "Zionists with campaign money" – that’s an old antisemitic trope. Support for Israel comes from decades of political and strategic ties, not secret influence.

I am afraid it is quite obviously true. Just read the story posted today about why Trump moved the Embassy and recognised the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Trump is openly and unapologetically confirming it.

 

[ASCPFC]

I am afraid it is quite obviously true. Just read the story posted today about why Trump moved the Embassy and recognised the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Trump is openly and unapologetically confirming it.

It's called the realistic situation of what's on the ground. If the Syrians want to retake the Golan Heights then fair enough. But they tried to take more and failed. Kind of how states work.
Berwick would have been Scottish had they won, but they didn't: so it is how it is.

 

[Spiderman]

Goodness me, the word asylum is like a red cloth to a bull with some of you 🤣

We agree that the asylum system is unfit for purpose. We agree that no country wants to take in millions of refugees. I'm not sure why you're ranting to me about it - you're supporting my point.

Not really. You said we were nowhere near millions, I am disputing that. Nowhere near a rant but, on this subject I do know the facts, rather than what is made public

 

[silvertop]

Well, I certainly don't disagree that Starmer is a scumbag......odious man who will say just about anything.

I.e a politician