Immigration

[Rudi Hedman]

This is the sensible view and approach on immigration that I think most people on either side of the political spectrum would agree with.

My issue is with those who lump all immigration into the same category (or at the very least non-white immigration) and either can’t, or don’t want to, differentiate between those who want to get on and those who do want to try and milk the system and/or commit crimes.

We are also on a slippery slope towards an ever more hostile environment toward anyone in this country who isn’t white, no matter what their background, how long they’ve been here, or how long they intend to stay. I’ve had mates who are second/third generation immigrants put up with an increasing level of sh*t from emboldened w*nkers who feel more comfortable being outwardly hostile to them because of the political climate.

Being told to ‘go home’ or asked ‘where are you really from’ just because you’re not completely white is deeply unpleasant and makes people not feel at home in the country they are literally born and bred in. My nan and grandad were from Cork, but funnily enough no one has ever told me to f*ck off back to Ireland.

I’ve heard Caribbean men be xenophobic towards Africans. They nickname them ‘Nigers’.

I’ve heard a Nigerian man say it isn’t a surprise someone is a problem because they’re Jamaican.

Go into Croydon and you can be made to feel you aren’t welcome there. Trust me, it’s true. Go to Bromley and there are some black people in the town centre but it isn’t the majority and it doesn’t give a few the confidence to think you aren’t welcome.

The issue is Dan is the numbers, and I’m sure we can go on and on about it. Years ago it really was an ethnic minority in nearly all areas and schools. Not now, and that is helped along by white flight. Racism was successfully erased as much as it could have been, without mass immigration. But you say it’s on its way back. Why is that then? Mass immigration perhaps? Why the rise of far right politics in Europe? Mass immigration? Sorry but you cannot decide to implement things on a society and not expect a reaction. By the way, I’m not condoning racism.

 

[DanH]

That YouGov piece is telling people how they think. How can YouGov have an opinion piece?
Trying to say that people only don't like migration because they feel, incorrectly, that it's illegal. So people are labelled incorrect in their views. Of course they are.

It’s literally not - it’s an extremely thorough piece of research and analysis of data and I thoroughly recommend everyone on here reads it right through to the end.

It also explains why Farage et al NEED to play up illegal migration and small boats and try and make it seem like a bigger proportion of immigration because they KNOW the wider population’s attitude changes significantly when comparing legal and illegal immigration. They’re not idiots - they know exactly what they are doing.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I’ve heard Caribbean men be xenophobic towards Africans. They nickname them ‘Nigers’.

I’ve heard a Nigerian man say it isn’t a surprise someone is a problem because they’re Jamaican.

Go into Croydon and you can be made to feel you aren’t welcome there. Trust me, it’s true. Go to Bromley and there are some black people in the town centre but it isn’t the majority and it doesn’t give a few the confidence to think you aren’t welcome.

The issue is Dan is the numbers, and I’m sure we can go on and on about it. Years ago it really was an ethnic minority in nearly all areas and schools. Not now, and that is helped along by white flight. Racism was successfully erased as much as it could have been, without mass immigration. But you say it’s on its way back. Why is that then? Mass immigration perhaps? Why the rise of far right politics in Europe? Mass immigration? Sorry but you cannot decide to implement things on a society and not expect a reaction. By the way, I’m not condoning racism.

Separate to immigration, as someone who was raised in Croydon, currently lives in Croydon and spends a huge amount of time in it, I have never felt like I am not welcome there.

West Croydon is a dump, as it has been my whole lifetime, but I don't feel unwelcome.

East Croydon is broadly gentrified these days - a load of new-build flats rented by young professionals surrounded by expensive brunch spots and gastropubs. The idea that you'd be 'unwelcome' there as a white person is quite amusing.

It's bordering on insanity that you think black people in Bromley/Croydon are assessing how many other black people there are around before deciding if they are confident enough to make white people feel unwelcome - this is a complete projection of your own insecurity.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

It’s literally not - it’s an extremely thorough piece of research and analysis of data and I thoroughly recommend everyone on here reads it right through to the end.

He has a point. But it doesn’t really matter anyway because the numbers opposing legal migration are quite high, while at the start the report says people think illegal migration is higher than it is (so people think legal migration is lower than it is). Hmmm, doesn’t make sense, does it?

Fact is the dissatisfaction is growing, but hey ho, after it’s reached its peak the dissatisfaction with immigration will drop once the great replacement is near complete.

 

[DanH]

I’ve heard Caribbean men be xenophobic towards Africans. They nickname them ‘Nigers’.

I’ve heard a Nigerian man say it isn’t a surprise someone is a problem because they’re Jamaican.

Go into Croydon and you can be made to feel you aren’t welcome there. Trust me, it’s true. Go to Bromley and there are some black people in the town centre but it isn’t the majority and it doesn’t give a few the confidence to think you aren’t welcome.

The issue is Dan is the numbers, and I’m sure we can go on and on about it. Years ago it really was an ethnic minority in nearly all areas and schools. Not now, and that is helped along by white flight. Racism was successfully erased as much as it could have been, without mass immigration. But you say it’s on its way back. Why is that then? Mass immigration perhaps? Why the rise of far right politics in Europe? Mass immigration? Sorry but you cannot decide to implement things on a society and not expect a reaction. By the way, I’m not condoning racism.

Of course xenophobia and racism doesn’t just work one way - no one is suggesting it does.

It’s on its way back because the wider public are being encouraged by the political discourse coming from Reform (and depressingly the Tories) who want everyone to believe that all of their woes are down to immigration, rather than systematic government failures over the last few decades which have kept people in poverty and wages stagnating. It’s far easier for political parties to point their fingers at inmigrants because a) it’s a convenient smoke shield for their abject failure (Tories) or because they ‘want their country back (read: want fewer non-white people - Reform).

The YouGov research you have just posted shows firstly, how ill informed people are about legal and illegal migration, and then secondly, how public opinion varies wildly between the two.

It’s an inconvenient truth for Reform for the wider public to know the real facts and figures.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I’ve heard Caribbean men be xenophobic towards Africans. They nickname them ‘Nigers’.

I’ve heard a Nigerian man say it isn’t a surprise someone is a problem because they’re Jamaican.

Go into Croydon and you can be made to feel you aren’t welcome there. Trust me, it’s true. Go to Bromley and there are some black people in the town centre but it isn’t the majority and it doesn’t give a few the confidence to think you aren’t welcome.

The issue is Dan is the numbers, and I’m sure we can go on and on about it. Years ago it really was an ethnic minority in nearly all areas and schools. Not now, and that is helped along by white flight. Racism was successfully erased as much as it could have been, without mass immigration. But you say it’s on its way back. Why is that then? Mass immigration perhaps? Why the rise of far right politics in Europe? Mass immigration? Sorry but you cannot decide to implement things on a society and not expect a reaction. By the way, I’m not condoning racism.

Because neo-liberalism has failed and populations across Europe are looking for an explanation as to why - the right, to it's credit, has done far better at providing people with an explanation that resonates with them than the left have.

 

[DanH]

Separate to immigration, as someone who was raised in Croydon, currently lives in Croydon and spends a huge amount of time in it, I have never felt like I am not welcome there.

West Croydon is a dump, as it has been my whole lifetime, but I don't feel unwelcome.

East Croydon is broadly gentrified these days - a load of new-build flats rented by young professionals surrounded by expensive brunch spots and gastropubs. The idea that you'd be 'unwelcome' there as a white person is quite amusing.

It's bordering on insanity that you think black people in Bromley/Croydon are assessing how many other black people there are around before deciding if they are confident enough to make white people feel unwelcome - this is a complete projection of your own insecurity.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that for some posters on here even seeing a black person makes them feel unsafe.

 

[cryrst]

It’s becoming increasingly clear that for some posters on here even seeing a black person makes them feel unsafe.

Do you act as stupid as you post ffs.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Separate to immigration, as someone who was raised in Croydon, currently lives in Croydon and spends a huge amount of time in it, I have never felt like I am not welcome there.

West Croydon is a dump, as it has been my whole lifetime, but I don't feel unwelcome.

East Croydon is broadly gentrified these days - a load of new-build flats rented by young professionals surrounded by expensive brunch spots and gastropubs. The idea that you'd be 'unwelcome' there as a white person is quite amusing.

It's bordering on insanity that you think black people in Bromley/Croydon are assessing how many other black people there are around before deciding if they are confident enough to make white people feel unwelcome - this is a complete projection of your own insecurity.

Agree on East Croydon. Don’t know where you’ve seen these Gastropubs in East Croydon. The Porter and Sorter? The Cricketers in Addiscombe? Too far. All Bar One?

Get near the shops in Croydon and the place changes. I rarely go, but if I want to, I will, but many won’t. I only go to M&S or House of Fraser. Pointless otherwise.

West Croydon wasn’t as bad as it is now. It had the Half Moon opposite the station, didn’t have Burkas everywhere and gangs hiding knives and drugs under the fruit and veg outside all the Muslim shops.

West Croydon 🤦‍♂️😂…

710.751 Aufrufe · 12.942 Reaktionen | #fblifestyle | Frowest LifeStyle ItsMiralda

#fblifestyle.

www.facebook.com

 

[DanH]

Do you act as stupid as you post ffs.

It may have been slightly tongue in cheek (or hook in cheek, for you).

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Of course xenophobia and racism doesn’t just work one way - no one is suggesting it does.

It’s on its way back because the wider public are being encouraged by the political discourse coming from Reform (and depressingly the Tories) who want everyone to believe that all of their woes are down to immigration, rather than systematic government failures over the last few decades which have kept people in poverty and wages stagnating. It’s far easier for political parties to point their fingers at inmigrants because a) it’s a convenient smoke shield for their abject failure (Tories) or because they ‘want their country back (read: want fewer non-white people - Reform).

The YouGov research you have just posted shows firstly, how ill informed people are about legal and illegal migration, and then secondly, how public opinion varies wildly between the two.

It’s an inconvenient truth for Reform for the wider public to know the real facts and figures.

But what they’ve said contradicts the poll. They say people think illegal immigration is higher than it is. Later on people say legal migration is too high. Which is it? But they’re all thick so whatever to what they think.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Agree on East Croydon. Don’t know where you’ve seen these Gastropubs in East Croydon. The Porter and Sorter? The Cricketers in Addiscombe? Too far. All Bar One?

Get near the shops in Croydon and the place changes. I rarely go, but if I want to, I will, but many won’t. I only go to M&S or House of Fraser. Pointless otherwise.

West Croydon wasn’t as bad as it is now. It had the Half Moon opposite the station, didn’t have Burkas everywhere and gangs hiding knives and drugs under the fruit and veg outside all the Muslim shops.

West Croydon 🤦‍♂️😂…

710.751 Aufrufe · 12.942 Reaktionen | #fblifestyle | Frowest LifeStyle ItsMiralda

#fblifestyle.

www.facebook.com

Mr Fox
Dog and Bull
The Store (more of a wine bar than a pub, but very much for the new East Croydon crowd!)

There's a feckin board game cafe in Croydon these days!

Yeah the shopping centre attracts some oiks, but when and where has that not been the case.

West Croydon was always a hole.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

It’s becoming increasingly clear that for some posters on here even seeing a black person makes them feel unsafe.

Yeah I never step foot on a London postcode lol. Says Parklife chap living in Colchester 😂

I take people as I find them. Doesn’t matter as long as they aren’t wearing full Muslim garb and Burkas etc. They don’t want to know anyway.

 

[DanH]

Yeah I never step foot on a London postcode lol. Says Parklife chap living in Colchester 😂

I take people as I find them. Doesn’t matter as long as they aren’t wearing full Muslim garb and Burkas etc. They don’t want to know anyway.

I’m going to need a bigger landing net 🙂

 

[DanH]

But what they’ve said contradicts the poll. They say people think illegal immigration is higher than it is. Later on people say legal migration is too high. Which is it? But they’re all thick so whatever to what they think.

It doesn’t contradict it at all - both those things can be true. I think the nuances in it are quite fascinating and not completely unsurprising.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Mr Fox
Dog and Bull
The Store (more of a wine bar than a pub, but very much for the new East Croydon crowd!)

There's a feckin board game cafe in Croydon these days!

Yeah the shopping centre attracts some oiks, but when and where has that not been the case.

West Croydon was always a hole.

They aren’t East Croydon.

Dog and Bull is probably the oldest and in Surrey Street.

Mr Fox near it.

The Store is South End and nearer South Croydon. Used to be called Rendezvous and then Bar R. It’s called the store because it was the first larger grocery store in a wide area, owned by Sainsbury’s I think. They had Tesco Value tins of beans in display cabinets when Rendezvous.

The board game cafe is on a corner opposite the south entrance to Surrey Street. Bit of a sh1tty place to be standing around for too long these days. Never used to be.

West Croydon is a lot lot worse. But because it was below the rest it doesn’t matter it’s a lot worse now?

 

[Rudi Hedman]

It doesn’t contradict it at all - both those things can be true. I think the nuances in it are quite fascinating and not completely unsurprising.

Do you accept the growing opinion that legal migration as well as illegal migration is too high?

 

[Teddy Eagle]

It’s becoming increasingly clear that for some posters on here even seeing a black person makes them feel unsafe.

Why does it always come down to race? In London in the 2011 census 44.9% identified as "White British" and in 2021 it was 36.8% and a lot of those people moved to London from elsewhere in the country.
Any way you slice it white Londoners are now a minority in a population who often have mutual enmities but they're still supposed to feel guilty about not feeling entirely comfortable with the situation.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

They aren’t East Croydon.

Dog and Bull is probably the oldest and in Surrey Street.

Mr Fox near it.

The Store is South End and nearer South Croydon. Used to be called Rendezvous and then Bar R. It’s called the store because it was the first larger grocery store in a wide area, owned by Sainsbury’s I think. They had Tesco Value tins of beans in display cabinets when Rendezvous.

The board game cafe is on a corner opposite the south entrance to Surrey Street. Bit of a sh1tty place to be standing around for too long these days. Never used to be.

West Croydon is a lot lot worse. But because it was below the rest it doesn’t matter it’s a lot worse now?

Yes, and just had a major refurb to keep up with the new demographics.

All of them are within a 10 minute walk of East Croydon station - I think we can reasonably describe them as in East Croydon.

Who sort of demographic do you imagine is frequenting a board game cafe..?

I don't agree it's a lot worse - I think it's much the same as it always has been. That Facebook has convinced you it's not does not make that true.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I rent out one of my properties to a lovely Indian couple with two children and they both work full time jobs. They lovely people and came here legally! This is why I chose them.

I have said before I don't mind immigrants coming over and assimilating into our society. The ones that come over for benefits and the freebies and to rape our women and stabb people as farage said can be deported back to their countries.

This is how the whole damn thing was sold to us.

It's destroyed us and ruined the country.

Yet you still believe this crap?

I've heard this 'lovely couple' crap all my life....It gets me beyond angry. It's been the excuse to feck us and now two generations later we have riots and it'll only get worse.

Of fecking course there are lovely people all over the world! Does that mean we give the country away to immigration?....I mean is being nice all that matters?...Were all those who died for us going over the top in WW1 'nice'? Was that important?.....I mean does this country belong to us or not? We have nowhere else to go......You can't have an immigration policy based on 'lovely people', it doesn't work. Now you get crowds of Muslims under Nelson's column whenever Khan wants to rub our noses in it and we've had them hanging out around Christian churches.

Assimilation once a community is formed never gets beyond 1 in 3.