How good are Crystal Palace?

[TheBigToePunt]

Surely we don't need to hypothesize about how good Crystal Palace are when there is a league table and cup tournaments to tell us?

By the standards of the lowest rung of European competition, we have a very strong side. Now that the dust has settled one of the more noticeable things about our Conference League run was just how hard our opponents found it to hurt us. Even in the knockout games, nobody really laid a glove on us. We did not exactly score at will, but certainly did not struggle to create chances overall. Of course, the team was well coached, and highly motivated, but it was still a bit of a pushover. Given how close an EPL European treble was many would see this as a reflection of greater budgets in our league. We certainly have far more money than any of the teams we played against, and may well have better players as a result.

Of course, we have far less money than at least half the teams we play domestically, and do not have great players compared to them. We usually have a few that they would like to sign, but we also have plenty more that they are not interested in. A typical modern Palace team is made up of both, and getting that balance right is a big part of all that has been achieved.

I am full of admiration for the way the club is able to keep producing competitive squads, but see no reason to think that this group of players should be expected to get us into the top 10, let alone the top 6 or anything.

 

[MrRobbo]

good points.

Yes, other than Lacriox, there are few natural leaders.

Defending/heading is a massive problem IMHO, however, luckily few teams play with a big target man.
Lacriox reminds me a bit of Andersen in that regard - good in the air but should be better given his height. Canvot is very weak with his head - rarely attacks the ball and timing of jumps is poor. Riad looks quite small and is not dominant in the air. Richards has some days where he's great in the air, others where he is all over the place.

Its a clear area for Canvot to work on. He's got the height and physicality, but feels like an anticipation issue. Often is a millisecond too slow allowing an attacked to get the run on him.

 

[Faz]

With that many players on duty pre season is a tight start again - took a while for JP to get fit after Euros

 

[mileend]

With that many players on duty pre season is a tight start again - took a while for JP to get fit after Euros

A good point. Our excellent start last year gave us points on the board early and some margin for error when the high number of games inevitably led to fatigue and injuries gave us problems picking up points over the winter

I want all our players to do well at the world cup but if they are knocked out early it will help the new manager prepare better for the season

As would doing our transfer business early in the window but that might be expecting too much

Or more effectively rotating the squad. Though need the squad quality to do it.

 

[PatrickA]

Surely we don't need to hypothesize about how good Crystal Palace are when there is a league table and cup tournaments to tell us?

By the standards of the lowest rung of European competition, we have a very strong side. Now that the dust has settled one of the more noticeable things about our Conference League run was just how hard our opponents found it to hurt us. Even in the knockout games, nobody really laid a glove on us. We did not exactly score at will, but certainly did not struggle to create chances overall. Of course, the team was well coached, and highly motivated, but it was still a bit of a pushover. Given how close an EPL European treble was many would see this as a reflection of greater budgets in our league. We certainly have far more money than any of the teams we played against, and may well have better players as a result.

Of course, we have far less money than at least half the teams we play domestically, and do not have great players compared to them. We usually have a few that they would like to sign, but we also have plenty more that they are not interested in. A typical modern Palace team is made up of both, and getting that balance right is a big part of all that has been achieved.

I am full of admiration for the way the club is able to keep producing competitive squads, but see no reason to think that this group of players should be expected to get us into the top 10, let alone the top 6 or anything.

I understand the reservations expressed about our league position aspirations.

However, I note that last season placings were as follows,
6) Bournemouth
7) Sunderland
8) Brighton
9) Brentford.

We should be aiming to achieve similar positions with our squad, and three of the aforementioned teams will also be in Europe next season with the same demands.
Of course it’s highly likely that Spurs and Chelsea will be stronger so that has to be factored in as well, and of course a lot will depend upon how the new manager settles in and what the make up of our squad will be.

 

[Joseph Paxton]

Good at defending (bar set-pieces); bad at scoring.

A little nugget for the incoming Manager.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

I think we can't be considered that good with our PL performance. Our home record is depressing.
If we'd won 3 of the six we lost we'd all be ecstatic.

Much of that is down to missed chances. We need a confident striker. It'd be great if he came from within the ranks.

If we get knocked out in the group stage of Europe next season, I’d be happy with just having a good solid home season in the league, basically win a few more than we have done for years. Because obviously being a season ticket holder that’s the majority of the games I go to and it’s been grim at Selhurst for years apart from the odd memorable game here and there
It’s a running joke how few goals we see up the Whitehorse end 🤨

 

[Elwissthebest]

I'd settle for a season in which we score more than we concede. Have we managed that in the Premier League? Everything will follow nicely from that.

 

[mileend]

I'd settle for a season in which we score more than we concede. Have we managed that in the Premier League? Everything will follow nicely from that.

Once (in the current sequence) - in 2021-22
Stats from Wikipedia

Season Div Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts Position
2013-14 Prem 38 13 6 19 33 48 -15 45 11th
2014–15 Prem 38 13 9 16 47 51 -4 48 10th
2015–16 Prem 38 11 9 18 39 51 -12 42 15th
2016–17 Prem 38 12 5 21 50 63 -13 41 14th
2017–18 Prem 38 11 11 16 45 55 -10 44 11th
2018–19 Prem 38 14 7 17 51 53 -2 49 12th
2019–20 Prem 38 11 10 17 31 50 -19 43 14th
2020–21 Prem 38 12 8 18 41 66 -25 44 14th
2021–22 Prem 38 11 15 12 50 46 +4 48 12th
2022–23 Prem 38 11 12 15 40 49 -9 45 11th
2023–24 Prem 38 13 10 15 57 58 -1 49 10th
2024–25 Prem 38 13 14 11 51 51 0 53 12th
2025–26 Prem 38 11 12 15 41 51 -10 45 15th

 

[StandbyPalace]

Surely we don't need to hypothesize about how good Crystal Palace are when there is a league table and cup tournaments to tell us?

By the standards of the lowest rung of European competition, we have a very strong side. Now that the dust has settled one of the more noticeable things about our Conference League run was just how hard our opponents found it to hurt us. Even in the knockout games, nobody really laid a glove on us. We did not exactly score at will, but certainly did not struggle to create chances overall. Of course, the team was well coached, and highly motivated, but it was still a bit of a pushover. Given how close an EPL European treble was many would see this as a reflection of greater budgets in our league. We certainly have far more money than any of the teams we played against, and may well have better players as a result.

Of course, we have far less money than at least half the teams we play domestically, and do not have great players compared to them. We usually have a few that they would like to sign, but we also have plenty more that they are not interested in. A typical modern Palace team is made up of both, and getting that balance right is a big part of all that has been achieved.

I am full of admiration for the way the club is able to keep producing competitive squads, but see no reason to think that this group of players should be expected to get us into the top 10, let alone the top 6 or anything.

Well written and agree with everything you say apart from the last sentence. There was a small 8 points difference between 7th and 15th. We came 2nd in the VAR mistakes league with 3 incidents, without those errors our points figure could have been higher.

Our recent histrory shows we are a 10th-15th placed team that still flirts with relegation. It would be nice to become a 6th-10th place team with no relegation nerves that achieves regular European tours instead.

The so called smaller clubs are showing they can compete for domestic trophies, higher league positions and European places even without the revenues of the top 6. Long may that continue!

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Well written and agree with everything you say apart from the last sentence. There was a small 8 points difference between 7th and 15th. We came 2nd in the VAR mistakes league with 3 incidents, without those errors our points figure could have been higher.

Our recent histrory shows we are a 10th-15th placed team that still flirts with relegation. It would be nice to become a 6th-10th place team with no relegation nerves that achieves regular European tours instead.

The so called smaller clubs are showing they can compete for domestic trophies, higher league positions and European places even without the revenues of the top 6. Long may that continue!

Fair enough. To make myself more clear, I don't think we can't finish between 10th and 6th, my point was simply that we have no reason to expect it.

We are one of the middle bunch of teams (perhaps along with Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Fulham, Newcastle, Everton, Forest, Sunderland if they can keep it going, maybe even Leeds if they get going) who could finish in the lower European places once in a while if, and only if, at least two of the big boys have a stinker, we aren't already playing extra games in Europe that year, and (as you say) the rub of the green goes our way a few times.

That's quite a different perspective to the one I read a bit on here, which is that we should 'kick on' and 'build on our success' and 'aim higher', 'show ambition' etc. That mindset suggests that it is within our powers (and budget) not only to make the top 8 happen, but to get to the point where it happens often. Usually, some other mid table team who have finished higher than us are given as an example of what we are failing to achieve.

I don't see it like that. I don't expect any of Bournemouth, Brighton, or Sunderland to now become regular top 8 sides. Its just their turn this time. The dice might well roll our way one of these years, but its not something you can secure for yourself. Its just an occasional side effect of being a well run, battle hardened mid table top flight club.

 

[doombear]

Well written and agree with everything you say apart from the last sentence. There was a small 8 points difference between 7th and 15th. We came 2nd in the VAR mistakes league with 3 incidents, without those errors our points figure could have been higher.

Our recent histrory shows we are a 10th-15th placed team that still flirts with relegation. It would be nice to become a 6th-10th place team with no relegation nerves that achieves regular European tours instead.

The so called smaller clubs are showing they can compete for domestic trophies, higher league positions and European places even without the revenues of the top 6. Long may that continue!

Unfortunately, the new SCR rules favour the bigger clubs and makes it more difficult for clubs like us to compete. Both UEFA and the PL seem hellbent on ensuring the big clubs remain the big clubs because they have more fans and bring in more broadcast revenues.

Predictive text made a nonsense of my original post. Apologies

 

[Eagle One]

I understand the reservations expressed about our league position aspirations.

However, I note that last season placings were as follows,
6) Bournemouth
7) Sunderland
8) Brighton
9) Brentford.

We should be aiming to achieve similar positions with our squad, and three of the aforementioned teams will also be in Europe next season with the same demands.
Of course it’s highly likely that Spurs and Chelsea will be stronger so that has to be factored in as well, and of course a lot will depend upon how the new manager settles in and what the make up of our squad will be.

The issue though about a higher league placing is the European football. I read on a Bournemouth Facebook page after our recent defeat to them some negative comments from their fans about our team in the PL last season. However, unless they find a way to really increase their squad depth without spending a huge amount then they will find it difficult next season with the Thursday and Sunday demands. Same for Sunderland (especially with second season syndrome) and I can see squad fatigue being an issue for Brighton too.

It wouldn't surprise me to see all the PL teams in the Europa and Conference teams next year to be in the lower half of the table, as we were last season. I think we have a slight advantage in that we have been through it this season so will be a bit more hardened but that also depends on how many players we lose and bring in. Ideally we need at least 2-3 players more overall than we had this season to be able to cope with the PL and Europa.

 

[StandbyPalace]

Unfortunately, the new SCR rules favour the bigger clubs and makes it more difficult for clubs like us to compete. Both UEFA and the PL serm wellbeing on enduring the bug clubs remain the big clubs because they have more fans and bring in more broadcast revenues.

True but some of the big clubs are not immune to f*** things up despite their massive revenues ie Chelsea, Spurs and even Liverpool last season. West Ham although not a big club have huge revenues and low costs (some of which are paid by the tax payer WTF) - and look what happened to them. So there is hope for us smaller teams still imho.

 

[McAhuna]

One of the top 30 sides in the world

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Unfortunately, the new SCR rules favour the bigger clubs and makes it more difficult for clubs like us to compete. Both UEFA and the PL serm wellbeing on enduring the bug clubs remain the big clubs because they have more fans and bring in more broadcast revenues.

Rules which favour the big clubs? This is an unwelcome development. Most unwelcome.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

The issue though about a higher league placing is the European football. I read on a Bournemouth Facebook page after our recent defeat to them some negative comments from their fans about our team in the PL last season. However, unless they find a way to really increase their squad depth without spending a huge amount then they will find it difficult next season with the Thursday and Sunday demands. Same for Sunderland (especially with second season syndrome) and I can see squad fatigue being an issue for Brighton too.

It wouldn't surprise me to see all the PL teams in the Europa and Conference teams next year to be in the lower half of the table, as we were last season. I think we have a slight advantage in that we have been through it this season so will be a bit more hardened but that also depends on how many players we lose and bring in. Ideally we need at least 2-3 players more overall than we had this season to be able to cope with the PL and Europa.

I think this is spot on, a mid table side can probably either have a great run and get into Europe, or be in Europe. Very rare to do both in the same season.

That is partly down to squad depth, as you say. I have banged on about this for ages, but the financial rewards of being in (lower and middle) European competition do not come close to covering the costs of a squad with enough very good players to attack both continental and domestic football.

Another point, which I think gets missed, is that often mid table clubs have these purple patches where they win a cup or qualify for Europe through the league precisely because they have a settled side, in which much the same players play most of the games, in a system they get familiar with. They form a unit.

How often do you hear that the new signings need time to settle, or the new players need time to become familiar with the team? It is entirely possible to have too many good players to form a unit from.

If Palace had 25 players all equally as good as our best 11, it wouldn't necessarily mean we were able to put out an equally strong side no matter who we picked. The side would suffer for the number of changes, the rhythm of the side would be disrupted.

Having a game plan that the team gets, and which a smaller number of players all buy into and understand fully because they play it every week, is a big part of why mid table clubs can produce good sides. You can't do that with 25 rotating cast members.

 

[dreamwaverider]

Or Wharton

To be honest, he deserves a much needed extended rest which he is of course now getting. Should give his body a chance to fully recover from all the knocks and niggles he's been getting.

 

[MarkA333]

I am not displeased that Wharton and Mitchell didn’t make the England squad, they already played over 60 games this season. And I care more about Palace than England.

 

[cryrst]

I am not displeased that Wharton and Mitchell didn’t make the England squad, they already played over 60 games this season. And I care more about Palace than England.

So do the royals !