Definition of stupid, taking a gun and confronting law enforcement

[Stirlingsays]

He didn't brandish a gun - his gun was in a holster up until an agent removed it.

It's also very clear the gun had been taken off the guy when the other agent decided to open fire.

If I take your word as to be what happened then you can't bring a gun to a melee against law enforcement and expect safety.

I can imagine that one of the restraining officers saw the gun and decided that was a risk to his life.

Once again, if people are stupid and make bad decisions they take the risk of death within the US system more so than say here.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Everyone can see he was not brandishing a gun. He had a legally carried gun on his person which was removed before someone shot him multiple times when he was restrained on the floor. You wouldn’t be so careless over shooting a dog.
Nothing excuses this sort of action, whether done illegally or in the name of law and order. This sort of action must never become our law and order, the law of the gun.

I disagree with you that you can take a gun with you and get involved in a melee and automatically expect safety.

I've spoken many times about people in high stress situations and guns. This kind of thing will happen. If he didn't have a gun on him I'd have more sympathy.

I would agree that we have the better system with armed response being conditional to the situation but then again we don't live in a country with more guns than people like the US.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

If I take your word as what happened then you can't bring a gun to a melee against law enforcement and expect safety.

I can imagine that one of the restraining officers saw the gun and decided that was a risk to his life.

Once again, if people are stupid and make bad decisions they take the risk of death within the US system more so than say here.

Ok, let’s start with acknowledging that your previous claim was a complete fabrication before we move onto the next.

The guy was disarmed and restrained when they shot him - there’s no logical argument that he was a deadly threat to anyone.

We can talk about people doing stupid things all day - it doesn’t warrant being executed by the state, obviously.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I disagree with you that you can take a gun with you and get involved in a melee and automatically expect safety.

I've spoken many times about people in high stress situations and guns. This kind of thing will happen. If he didn't have a gun on him I'd have more sympathy.

I would agree that we have the better system with armed response being conditional to the situation but then again we don't live in a country with more guns than people like the US.

He was unarmed when he was shot.

 

[Stirlingsays]

He was unarmed when he was shot.

How do you know this?

I still have memories of you coming on here and spending an evening claiming that Charlie Kirk's assassin was a groyper or on the far right.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Ok, let’s start with acknowledging that your previous claim was a complete fabrication before we move onto the next.

The guy was disarmed and restrained when they shot him - there’s no logical argument that he was a deadly threat to anyone.

We can talk about people doing stupid things all day - it doesn’t warrant being executed by the state, obviously.

You mean like Ashley Babbit?

From video I've seen so far I don't know whether he was armed or not (I've only heard that in reports) as for him being restrained, no that's not what I saw, what I saw was him still resisting arrest.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

How do you know this?

I still have memories of you coming on here and spending an evening claiming that Charlie Kirk's assassin was a groyper or on the far right.

Because there’s plenty of images and footage showing exactly that.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Because there’s plenty of images and footage showing exactly that.

Really? It shows 'exactly that'? Well, if you could post that proof that he was unarmed I could give an opinion. Personally, because of the experience with Kirk, I suggest you're pushing a narrative on scant evidence.

As what I've seen so far doesn't say either way.

 

[Putitout]

You mean like Ashley Babbit?

From video I've seen so far I don't know whether he was armed or not (I've only heard that in reports) as for him being restrained, no that's not what I saw, what I saw was him still resisting arrest.

He wasn’t fully restrained, but only in the sense that the four or five goons all over him hadn’t stopped him moving. A public execution was carried out merely for that. And not a clean killing either. No, a cold blooded fusillade of shots, enough to kill several people.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Really? It shows 'exactly that'? Well, if you could post that proof that he was unarmed I could give an opinion. Personally, because of the experience with Kirk, I suggest you're pushing a narrative on scant evidence.

As what I've seen so far doesn't say either way.

Yes, it does.

You’re on your high horse about pushing a narrative with scant evidence when you have just outright lied about what happened and said the guy was brandishing a weapon - I wonder where that narrative came from.

 

[Stirlingsays]

He wasn’t fully restrained, but only in the sense that the four or five goons all over him hadn’t stopped him moving. A public execution was carried out merely for that. And not a clean killing either. No, a cold blooded fusillade of shots, enough to kill several people.

Agreed, if he didn't have a gun on him.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Yes, it does.

You’re on your high horse about pushing a narrative with scant evidence when you have just outright lied about what happened and said the guy was brandishing a weapon - I wonder where that narrative came from.

Why haven't you posted proof?

The difference between you and me is that I haven't actually come out definitively about what happened. What I said was conditional upon reports being true.....If he wasn't carrying then what happened was an execution but if he was it's another sad incidence of what happens in America when you mix guns with high stress situations.

I'm not silly enough to believe that I can be certain about something I wasn't there to see without some very strong evidence otherwise.

Whereas you with Kirk went completely with a narrative that had very little going for it.

But I still await the evidence that warrants your certainty.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Why haven't you posted proof?

The difference between you and me is that I haven't actually come out definitively about what happened. What I said was conditional upon reports being true.....If he wasn't carrying then what happened was an execution but if he was it's another sad incidence of what happens in America when you mix guns with high stress situations.

I'm not silly enough to believe that I can be certain about something I wasn't there to see without some very strong evidence otherwise.

Whereas you with Kirk went completely with a narrative that had very little going for it.

But I still await the evidence that warrants your certainty.

Here’s the proof which you will no doubt disbelieve in your objective hunt for the truth: Timeline: How the Shooting of Alex Jeffrey Pretti Unfolded

 

[silvertop]

You arnt peacefully protesting if you bring a gun and two loaded magazines to a "peaceful protest" and obstruct law enforcement operations, not follow their order and resist arrest.

Democrats need to stop fueling a dangerous rhetoric and to tell people to leave law enforcement alone to do their job.

ICE are not trained and qualified at crowd control. They were doing another's job with inevitable consequences.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

He may have been reaching for his gun, he may have been grappling for or had hold of an agents gun.

You cannot make out with any clarity whatsoever who had what or who was holding what in the videos thus far aired of the violent struggle. Why don’t all the armchair experts wait to see the facts disclosed as they are established.

Britain is Broken. As Farage has just said in his press conference. The governing party insist it isn’t, the leader of the opposition says it isn’t, while anyone living in the real world knows it is. We need wholesale change; a new boiler and a new central heating system…not just someone tinkering with the existing plumbing!

Get Labour out and bring in the new party; whether that be Reform or Advance UK or any other right wing party that will stop illegal immigration and re-migrate all the illegals who are currently here. Stop their benefits, stop housing them, stop their handouts, mobile phones, private health care.

Get the deportations done by their tens of thousands and stop the flood of others arriving. This can’t come soon enough!

 

[Stirlingsays]

Here’s the proof which you will no doubt disbelieve in your objective hunt for the truth: Timeline: How the Shooting of Alex Jeffrey Pretti Unfolded

If that report is accurate then I can see this being either an execution or confusion as he was identified as having a gun or as Phil said he was reaching for or grappling with an officer's gun. The link you provided pushes only the execution narrative, so I would agree only if what it said was accurate....not if it isn't.

But if it is true then it's unfortunate, and it fits in with what I was saying about these situations.

As for the left, I don't care what they think about state sanctioned murder because they either celebrated Ashley Babbit's murder or stayed silent about it. So their opinion carries no weight.

 

[Stirlingsays]

ICE are not trained and qualified at crowd control. They were doing another's job with inevitable consequences.

Sure.

Shame that Biden allowed ten million illegals into the country then.

This is the result.....you get an agency expanded significantly that becomes a form of state policing.

Iran and Pakistan have just thrown out millions of Afghans, all in the space of a year.......Very little reporting of it in the mainstream news for several reasons.....but for all the reasons which right wingers would understand.

 

[DanH]

He may have been reaching for his gun, he may have been grappling for or had hold of an agents gun.

You cannot make out with any clarity whatsoever who had what or who was holding what in the videos thus far aired of the violent struggle. Why don’t all the armchair experts wait to see the facts disclosed as they are established.

Britain is Broken. As Farage has just said in his press conference. The governing party insist it isn’t, the leader of the opposition says it isn’t, while anyone living in the real world knows it is. We need wholesale change; a new boiler and a new central heating system…not just someone tinkering with the existing plumbing!

Get Labour out and bring in the new party; whether that be Reform or Advance UK or any other right wing party that will stop illegal immigration and re-migrate all the illegals who are currently here. Stop their benefits, stop housing them, stop their handouts, mobile phones, private health care.

Get the deportations done by their tens of thousands and stop the flood of others arriving. This can’t come soon enough!

Lol. This exactly vindicates my earlier post.

This is why they are defending it on here - this is exactly what they want on our streets and why they’re so utterly desperate to push the ‘broken Britain’ narrative.

 

[beak]

Over the past 24 hours, Donald Trump – and his top aides – have shifted their messaging in response to the shooting death of Alex Pretti by federal law enforcement agents.

The initial administration response included accusations that Pretti was a domestic terrorist who brandished a firearm and sought to "massacre law enforcement", in the words of a statement by the Department of Homeland Security.

Senior White House adviser Stephen Miller called Pretti a "would-be assassin".

Videos of the incident show Pretti was holding a phone as he filmed agents, and he was visibly not holding a gun. Some law enforcement authorities and Republicans in Washington DC expressed growing unease with how the administration was handling the situation.

Since Sunday night, there has been a marked change in tone from the White House.

Veteran’s Affairs Secretary Doug Collins offered condolences to the Pretti family. The president posted a message on his Truth Social website calling the death "tragic" and blaming it on "Democrat ensued chaos".

This message was echoed by Vice-President JD Vance and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, who said Democrats had created a "powder keg" environment.

This morning, Trump posted that he was dispatching "border czar" Tom Homan to Minnesota to direct law-enforcement efforts there – a change of face, if not necessarily policy, as the president tries to come to grips with a public mood that is rapidly souring on his immigration policies

 

[Putitout]

Illegal migrants need to be apprehended ,and in many cases removed to a safe space other than here, they are illegal after any other consideration. It should never be carried out in the street owning fashion used by ICE.
Intended or otherwise ICE operate in the fashion of Brown shirts, only mostly better armed and masked.