Brighton vs Crystal Palace match thread

[JHB]

Agreed. Play Kamada, Wharton and Timber in the middle, one less hopeless centre back, and create a place in the team for our best goal scorer.

That would mean not playing a 343 formation, though. I wonder if Sage was appointed, at least in part, because he prefers that system and so would give us continuity?

I hope not. For one thing the way Sage uses the system is totally different to how Glasner does, so it's not consistent anyway. For another, the system should be dictated by the qualities of the best players. It wasn't clear that 343 was the best use of our squad after last Xmas, and that was with La croix and Munoz. It certainly isn't now.

He won’t change formation. Like Glasner he is totally wedded to it. I would like to see him play 4-5-1 with Richards at right back (the other two have been so poor) and the midfield three you suggest. Stick McNeil left wing and Sarr right. Get loads of crosses in the box. Basic and probably not wildly entertaining but almost certainly more effective.

All a moot point. He won’t change formation. At the very least he has to change the tactics. Well if he doesn’t he will be looking for a job very soon

 

[Elwissthebest]

All too predictable that some will think getting rid of the manager is the answer. The point is rather to emulate the business model. Brighton find brilliant players for not much, coach them well and sell them for megabucks, frequently to Chelsea. Meanwhile, we sell Guehi and Lacroix for a combined £70m. We've been behind Brighton, and to a lesser extent Brentford and Bournemouth in terms of development as a club, for a few seasons. All hidden by the F.A. Cup win and the less glorious silverware of the Charity Shield and the Conference League.

 

[Part Time James]

He won’t change formation. Like Glasner he is totally wedded to it. I would like to see him play 4-5-1 with Richards at right back (the other two have been so poor) and the midfield three you suggest. Stick McNeil left wing and Sarr right. Get loads of crosses in the box. Basic and probably not wildly entertaining but almost certainly more effective.

All a moot point. He won’t change formation. At the very least he has to change the tactics. Well if he doesn’t he will be looking for a job very soon

Can't help but nod my head at everything you've said. The reason I could only ever call Glasner "good" rather than "great" was because of exactly what you've said. Despite the trophies. We got a bunch of fixtures in both tournaments where those tactics were fine and we generally had the available players to make them work.

 

[Dogburger]

I don't think even the most optimistic of us were expecting to be leaving the Amex with any points today but it was certainly a game that exposed where we have failed in recruiting the right players .

Without echoing previous posts that has to be addressed in January .Between then and now (stating the bloody obvious) we will just have to make do with what we have got but any more drubbings and any confidence these players have in Sages tactics will quickly evaporate .

Bad day at the office

 

[Painter]

I wish they'd say as much. It would be easier to get behind the club and team when you can appreciate the challenges they are facing.

Actually, I wish they'd appointed a manager who was better suited to seeing us through what was always going to be a tough patch given the above.

Fans dont to want hear the truth, very happy to bob along to Leipzig and bask in glory. The reality is that the odds are always against us, we had to sell to comply with UEFA as you say, along with Villa and Newcastle we lost our best players.
Its all in the recruitment of new talent, which Brighton annoyingly do very well, but since Freeman left for whatever reason, we now dont.

 

[Part Time James]

Fans dont to want hear the truth, very happy to bob along to Leipzig and bask in glory. The reality is that the odds are always against us, we had to sell to comply with UEFA as you say, along with Villa and Newcastle we lost our best players.
Its all in the recruitment of new talent, which Brighton annoyingly do very well, but since Freeman left for whatever reason, we now dont.

Am I right in thinking they also banked the proceeds of their over inflated sales to Chelsea over five years and then chucked all the money into recruitment for this season or the season before? Not casting an opinion on whether that is prudent but it appears to have worked.

 

[Adrift]

No player,or manager, is above criticism and we have to be honest when assessing individual and team performances.
Over the years I have received virulent criticism and whilst I might not have agreed with every 'Jot and tittle', I respected the right of those to express their views.

I really don't think Sage should publicly criticize his own players. I don't see other managers doing it. He has plenty of opportunities during the week.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I think if Sage was fired tomorrow I would shrug my shoulders. If he wasn't I'd shrug my shoulders.

We do seem to be in a "rebuild" which is a term weirdly creeping into English football from American sports. It works in North America because none of their sports have a concept of relegation (and an entirely different finance model). So you sign a whole squad of new players and wait 5 years for them to come good whilst they fail to set the world on fire. And it's ok if you come bottom of the league.

If it's to become a thing in football you have to be a lot more careful. You have to be pretty sure you can finish at least 17th. I feel like we can scrape 17th with this squad and manager. That's not quite the same as looking for three teams worse than us, but it equates to the same experience.

The other thing that comes under this heading is the idea of 'trading' as undertaken by directors of football (or general managers in America, I think). This is the idea there is some great skill in buying and selling players almost seemingly for its own sake. Look at Chelsea. Sign Christ knows how many players, loan out so many the fans can't keep track, flog this one and that one when they haven't really had much chance to do much just to buy someone else not obviously better, and somehow turn a profit on this nonsense so, apparently, job done.

Meanwhile the team is poor, lacks stability, and has very few players who feel like they 'own' the team as it all gets changed so much.

Would any experienced old school proper manager have sanctioned so much change in the summer, and paid so little regard to the erosion of the senior core in the team?

Again, if we had to sell for FFP then so be it, but it didn't feel like the summer transfers were led by what should always be the main factor: The first XI. Everything else should be a distant second, but has come to seem like the driver.

 

[eritheagle]

Yes, we haven't had a settled back 3 but the team we lost to didn't have their 2 best wingers, had to play a left-back and a central midfielder there instead. They had a cb at lb, a young midfielder in only his 3rd or 4th start in prem, a 35 yr old running the game. Lost their main striker in the summer too.

and they're 2nd in the league cos their manager can coach and motivate them!!

 

[JHB]

All too predictable that some will think getting rid of the manager is the answer. The point is rather to emulate the business model. Brighton find brilliant players for not much, coach them well and sell them for megabucks, frequently to Chelsea. Meanwhile, we sell Guehi and Lacroix for a combined £70m. We've been behind Brighton, and to a lesser extent Brentford and Bournemouth in terms of development as a club, for a few seasons. All hidden by the F.A. Cup win and the less glorious silverware of the Charity Shield and the Conference League.

Ok but we are where we are. We can’t change the squad we have (until Jan). Changing the business model won’t make any difference to what happens on the pitch now this season. So what do we do?

The question is do we think Sage is the right person to get results from here. Doesn’t mean the other stuff goes away but it is the decision that needs making now

 

[rikz]

No point comparing us with brighton, they're probably the best run club in the country. Im still fairly happy with where we are as a club, I just dont have much confidence in the manager.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

Sadly, this is what Forest should’ve done to us last week…be 3-0 up inside 30 minutes. We were shockingly poor defensively last weekend and only poor finishing saved us from being dead and buried before half time.

We are an absolute shambles at the back and as good a player as Wharton is, he is not Captain material. We have no leaders on the pitch, not a single Palace player was firing up the team or talking to the other players having just gone 3-0 down when there was a break in play for an injured player. No one spoke to each other, it was just pathetic.

 

[PatrickA]

Brighton sold Van Hecke for £52 million and bought Vuskovic for £46 million.
Vuskovic looks to be an outstanding talent, a more than adequate replacement, and a player already supposedly on Bayern's shopping list.

We in turn have sold Guehi and Lacroix and have replaced them with a perpetually injured free transfer in Tomiyasu, an unwanted player from Chelsea on loan in Disasi and a relatively inexperienced teenager in Ahanor.

Ah, I hear people say , but the centre back we wanted was injured and Canvot has 'potential.'

Well none of that is helping our goals against column.
You can't sell 2 of the best centre backs in the Premier League and just hope for the best.
You have to replace quality with quailty rather than mere hope.
We don't look to have remotely replaced the pace, organisational skills, strength and ability to defend 1 on 1 of Lacroix and Guehi.
Even allowing for Sage's seeming inability to organise a defence, it doesn't half help to have experienced quailty at the back.

 

[Part Time James]

The other thing that comes under this heading is the idea of 'trading' as undertaken by directors of football (or general managers in America, I think). This is the idea there is some great skill in buying and selling players almost seemingly for its own sake. Look at Chelsea. Sign Christ knows how many players, loan out so many the fans can't keep track, flog this one and that one when they haven't really had much chance to do much just to buy someone else not obviously better, and somehow turn a profit on this nonsense so, apparently, job done.

Meanwhile the team is poor, lacks stability, and has very few players who feel like they 'own' the team as it all gets changed so much.

Would any experienced old school proper manager have sanctioned so much change in the summer, and paid so little regard to the erosion of the senior core in the team?

Again, if we had to sell for FFP then so be it, but it didn't feel like the summer transfers were led by what should always be the main factor: The first XI. Everything else should be a distant second, but has come to seem like the driver.

At best, the summer was about depth. Something we all wanted, but in hindsight few of us would have wanted to sacrifice the first XI for it. We took a gamble that the players would hit the ground running. I'm not sure why we thought they would given very few of our signings had experience in English football. It's not paid off. We have to hang on and hope that those players, on a normal trajectory a) stay up and b) come good.

 

[Glazier#1]

Richards plays in the middle when his best position is out on the right.
Today Canvot who is used to playing on the left was deployed on the right to accommodate the very inexperienced Ahanor introduced into the fray in a 'Derby' game.
From my perspective, Lerma should have started down the right.
These are decisions made by Pierre Sage who seems lost on the touchline.

Yes, this agree with this absolutely, apart from the highlighted..

It is clear, and has been for many moons, that Canvot's position is to the left of the centre back and Richards' is to the right of the centre back. Today's lunatic formation was tried early on this season and proved catastrophic. To not have learnt our lesson on that one is just gormless; negligent.

From my perspective, Lerma should have started in between those two in their rightful positions.

I'm not liking Sage at all.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's gone before long; Parish doesn't hang around.

 

[PatFromSouthCarolina]

At best, the summer was about depth. Something we all wanted, but in hindsight few of us would have wanted to sacrifice the first XI for it. We took a gamble that the players would hit the ground running. I'm not sure why we thought they would given very few of our signings had experience in English football. It's not paid off. We have to hang on and hope that those players, on a normal trajectory a) stay up and b) come good.

I thought depth was the #1 priority this offseason…Also don’t think many had Sarr going rogue on their bingo card. Mateta is/was always a wild card. Timber was a quality signing, but Wharton has regressed.

Could have done better addressing Lacroix, but the 3 new guys aren’t pure lumps either. I blame Sage’s tactics more than Parrish on that one.

Also wonder if some of the younger guys have lost confidence, and that falls on the manager.

 

[doombear]

But isn't the punishment for breaking uefa's rules just a small fine which english teams have just accepted in the past?

Depends what you mean by "small". I believe Villa's initial fine was in the region of £8-10m with threats of significantly more if they didn't get their house in order within a specified timescale. In addition there were restrictions on their transfer dealings meaning they couldn't spend more on buying players than they brought in from player sales. I believe Chelsea's fine was in the region of £25m with a threat of a further £95m if they didn't get their house in order within a set timeframe. They too were given transfer restrictions but because they had so many players on their books already they were able to sell those they no longer wanted for decent prices so as to buy the ones they wanted. Villa and Chelsea very much show the difference between the haves and the have nots in the PL as Villa had to sell 1st team players in order to "strengthen" their team.

 

[Part Time James]

I thought depth was the #1 priority this offseason…Also don’t think many had Sarr going rogue on their bingo card. Mateta is/was always a wild card. Timber was a quality signing, but Wharton has regressed.

Could have done better addressing Lacroix, but the 3 new guys aren’t pure lumps either. I blame Sage’s tactics more than Parrish on that one.

Also wonder if some of the younger guys have lost confidence.

Like JHB has said, the lack of flexibility to adapt tactics to the game/personnel/situation is where Sage could come a cropper. He has to budge and work with what he has. Failing to do that is going to cost us winnable games (frankly I don't really consider Brighton to be in that category so happy to write this one off) but ultimately it could cost him his job. We can blame the sell off of players, the ability of recruitments, the colour of the moon, whatever we want but there is SOME responsibility on the manager to not keep doing the same things and expecting them to mysteriously start working. And at the end of the day, managers are the easiest scapegoat to get rid of...

 

[Save Dwindlehurst]

Heavy defeats against Newcastle and Spurs may well see a change of manager. They are both struggling teams. Don’t think Besiktas counts for much. The Prem is different gravy as Sage is finding out….

 

[VinceHilaire]

Just got home from the game - well in fairness, that wasn’t a game - it was a lesson in how to recruit players and set up a team to win.

We are all annoyed, upset etc. I’m just walking the dog - I need someone to talk to who understands 😂

Anyway, think it’s been pointed out numerous times - their team was so much taller than ours, more physical, technically gifted. At Corners, its was boys marking men! Canvot was awful - no idea what was up, but just awful.

I’m not an expert, but we need a manager than understands the challenges of the Premiership, can motivate players and has tactical awareness. Sage is NOT that man