A thought-exercise : Carlo Ancellotti* takes the helm at Palace

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Area 51
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USA
* I am using his name as a Proxy for any top drawer, World Class manager. For a moment, forget about the why's and wherefores of us getting such a talent in to Selhurst. Just pretend we had the Worlds best. How would he get on with Palace ? Feel free to substitute another top 5 manager if you prefer. Jurgan Klopp/Rafa Benitez/whoever.

But no need to mention names. Call them 'the top manager' or 'a top manager'. And best not name any names.


This discussion is separate from the boring 'Glasner in/Glasner Out' soap opera.

what kind of a season would we have ? tell us about the good and the bad things.
 
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All of these managers are only ever any good when they get the transfer funds they want. Clearly, wouldn't happen here.
Exactly.
For example, Carlo Ancelotti is the most successful club manager in Europe He won league titles in all five major European leagues with big clubs - Milan, Bayern, PSG, Real Madrid and Chelsea but what Real difference did he make at Everton?

Likewise, Hodgson did well at the likes of Fulham, WBA, Palace and smaller European clubs but was a failure at Liverpool. He was good at making the most of limited resources.

How would a top manager do with our current squad or with the one we're likely to have next season? In my view, no better than managers who have done well with smaller clubs and maybe even worse.

.
 
Would he be performing some kind of penance by coming here? Being Italian we could bribe his local priest in to suggesting us in the confessional.
 
One of the things that has changed over time is that very few managers work their way up to the top level from lower ones. The days where a Clough or Ferguson could take a Forest or Aberdeen all the way from obscurity to glory are long gone as the glass ceiling is impenetrable. Also, doing well at smaller clubs used to be the best way to get a job managing a big club, but now, Thomas Frank notwithstanding, that almost never happens. If anything, you have a better chance of a big club job if you fail at a smaller club, but do it in the "right" way. Roberto Martinez got Wigan relegated playing total football and has been working at higher levels every since. Vincent Kompany got Burnley relegated with a whimper and went on to Bayern Munich.

What I've take from this is that there is a particular skill set for managing and coaching top elite mega rich clubs, and it's totally different to managing smaller ones. If Guardiola is a genius then he's one of a very particular type: nobody has ever been better at winning things at clubs that would have won them anyway.

That's not to knock him, loads of big clubs work their way through coach after coach who can't deliver even when megabucks are spent, but there's very little reason to think Guardiola would succeed at Palace, or even get us to a notably higher league place than the managers we've had before.

What I think a big time manager would do at Palace is play in the big club style. There would be lots of focus on pressing as soon as we lose the ball, even if it was obviously risky for our players. There would also be evidence of well drilled, high quality patterns of playing out from the back and through the midfield up to the final third. This would involve a greater degree of risk than we are used to, with players spreading out high and wide across the pitch in possession, leaving ourselves more open if it goes wrong. Which it would, more often than it does when you've got elite players from front to back and throughout the squad, as ours would have more loose touches and misplaced passes.

Plus, a pattern of play that gets the ball to a champions league winning forward line in good positions is a very good method of defence. It makes the opponents drop off and double up for fear of what a peak Salah or Messi will do to them, so you have less defending to do. Opponents wouldn't be as scared of our players, and rightly so. A massive part of the tactics wouldn't work as well.

Ultimately, what I think we would find is that the upside of big shot manager tactics in terms of good use of the ball would be counterbalanced by the downsides of inappropriate use of a system designed for elite players. We'd finish midtable again, but in different style.
 
Surely any Top Manager would be frustrated with our Player recruitment and retention tactics ?

But would such manager be able to roll with it ? and to make the best of an imperfect situation ? or would they do a Tony Pulis and walk away in a huff ?
 
All of these managers are only ever any good when they get the transfer funds they want. Clearly, wouldn't happen here.
I agree but some "top managers" would work better with our current players and resources than others.

Conte for example would do well with us I think. I also think Bielsa would do well.
 
One of the things that has changed over time is that very few managers work their way up to the top level from lower ones. The days where a Clough or Ferguson could take a Forest or Aberdeen all the way from obscurity to glory are long gone as the glass ceiling is impenetrable. Also, doing well at smaller clubs used to be the best way to get a job managing a big club, but now, Thomas Frank notwithstanding, that almost never happens. If anything, you have a better chance of a big club job if you fail at a smaller club, but do it in the "right" way. Roberto Martinez got Wigan relegated playing total football and has been working at higher levels every since. Vincent Kompany got Burnley relegated with a whimper and went on to Bayern Munich.

What I've take from this is that there is a particular skill set for managing and coaching top elite mega rich clubs, and it's totally different to managing smaller ones. If Guardiola is a genius then he's one of a very particular type: nobody has ever been better at winning things at clubs that would have won them anyway.

That's not to knock him, loads of big clubs work their way through coach after coach who can't deliver even when megabucks are spent, but there's very little reason to think Guardiola would succeed at Palace, or even get us to a notably higher league place than the managers we've had before.

What I think a big time manager would do at Palace is play in the big club style. There would be lots of focus on pressing as soon as we lose the ball, even if it was obviously risky for our players. There would also be evidence of well drilled, high quality patterns of playing out from the back and through the midfield up to the final third. This would involve a greater degree of risk than we are used to, with players spreading out high and wide across the pitch in possession, leaving ourselves more open if it goes wrong. Which it would, more often than it does when you've got elite players from front to back and throughout the squad, as ours would have more loose touches and misplaced passes.

Plus, a pattern of play that gets the ball to a champions league winning forward line in good positions is a very good method of defence. It makes the opponents drop off and double up for fear of what a peak Salah or Messi will do to them, so you have less defending to do. Opponents wouldn't be as scared of our players, and rightly so. A massive part of the tactics wouldn't work as well.

Ultimately, what I think we would find is that the upside of big shot manager tactics in terms of good use of the ball would be counterbalanced by the downsides of inappropriate use of a system designed for elite players. We'd finish midtable again, but in different style.
This makes sense. Kompany at Burnley, and Russell Martin at Southampton (and Rangers) are examples which come to mind.
 
Carlo will be thinking.........."ah feck, if Sarr scores any more goals the fecker will be sold in double-quick time"

and then we must replace him on the cheap.
 
I think having a good director of football combined with a versatile manager who has a Plan B is the way to go. A good communicator/negotiator like Dougie who could persuade top young players to come to Palace would always keep us near the top of the glass ceiling. The vultures will always be there circling to take them but you need a constant supply for the manager. Even Dougie signed the odd dud but his strike rate was still very impressive compared to most clubs our size.

Sometimes I think managers like Rob Edwards and Nuno who take total lost causes like Wolves and West Ham and turn them round are more impressive than big name coaches who get everything delivered to them on a plate. If they had a decent director of football supplying good talent to them I think they could do just as well if not better as they are hungrier too.
 
Exactly.
For example, Carlo Ancelotti is the most successful club manager in Europe He won league titles in all five major European leagues with big clubs - Milan, Bayern, PSG, Real Madrid and Chelsea but what Real difference did he make at Everton?

Likewise, Hodgson did well at the likes of Fulham, WBA, Palace and smaller European clubs but was a failure at Liverpool. He was good at making the most of limited resources.

How would a top manager do with our current squad or with the one we're likely to have next season? In my view, no better than managers who have done well with smaller clubs and maybe even worse.

.
He was doing great at Everton, they played good football and looked like they were heading for something big until he was poached away. Nobody who has had the job since has had even a sliver of the same success as he did, nor even a sliver of the same quality of football on offer.
 
I guess we were interested in Rosenior till Chelsea got there first. It wouldn't astonish me to see a megabucks club hire Robbie Keane to whose name we have been linked, but if we're the first to offer him a Premier League coaching role, we'll probably get him. Carrick did well with Middlesborough and has been rewarded; talking of whom McKenna's work at Ipswich has been praised and Palace might renew their interest in him but his first coaching role was alongside Carrick under Mourinho - and there's an unlikely person who I believe was once heard to say he'd like to manage a cub like Palace. (Terrible idea though I'd think that.)
 
I guess we were interested in Rosenior till Chelsea got there first. It wouldn't astonish me to see a megabucks club hire Robbie Keane to whose name we have been linked, but if we're the first to offer him a Premier League coaching role, we'll probably get him. Carrick did well with Middlesborough and has been rewarded; talking of whom McKenna's work at Ipswich has been praised and Palace might renew their interest in him but his first coaching role was alongside Carrick under Mourinho - and there's an unlikely person who I believe was once heard to say he'd like to manage a cub like Palace. (Terrible idea though I'd think that.)
For balance I think he said similar about Milwall!
 
For balance I think he said similar about Milwall!
Yes, he did. He also said he wants a club who isn’t in UEFA competitions, although it was a head of the moment comment after perceiving to be treated harshly by UEFA refs.

I won’t comment on whether he was right or wrong, frankly I don’t remember the actual incidents from that game, so much as the interview.

It would be quite ironic if we did get Mou immediately after Oli, if there is one manager on this earth who is more flagrant and outspoken, it is The Special One. Some sections of our fan base would be having weekly heart attacks.
 
It would be quite ironic if we did get Mou immediately after Oli, if there is one manager on this earth who is more flagrant and outspoken, it is The Special One. Some sections of our fan base would be having weekly heart attacks.
There is also the small matter of him being, and I believe this is a reasonable assessment, the cvnts cvnt. Few come close to him in that respect!
 

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