16 & 17 year olds to be given the vote

[chris123]

First vote in Wales this week where 16 and older have been able to vote. Always Labour or Plaid and won't be Labour this time it would seem.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

to enfranchise the most Woke demographic in the country ? its Gerrymandering in all but name.

what else could they do ? give people two or three votes if they have a degree in Equality studies or feminist philosophy ?

 

[ASCPFC]

to enfranchise the most Woke demographic in the country ? its Gerrymandering in all but name.

what else could they do ? give people two or three votes if they have a degree in Equality studies or feminist philosophy ?

I think you'll be surprised. The 16 and 17 year olds have had enough of woke. They've had it shoved down their throats throughout school but have seen the actual reality on the ground. As usual, this will backfire on Labour. This will help Greens, Reform and Plaid Cymru - not Tory obviously and Labour will likely either lose out - or not gain anything.
You're forgetting now that teenagers have seen and lived the reality of diversity and gender rubbish throughout their school years.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

The 16 and 17 year olds have had enough of woke. They've had it shoved down their throats throughout school

Maybe the Socialist vote will go down. But the Muslim vote ? it will surely go up ? and to do so quite dramatically ? which will be good for people who disagree with the boozy nature of British culture (including myself).

And Sadiq will be delighted.

UK election: Muslim voters’ impact was even bigger than you think - Hyphen

Labour lost more than 300,000 votes in areas with the highest Muslim populations, leaving it with fewer supporters overall than it had in 2019

hyphenonline.com

 

[ASCPFC]

I think you'll be surprised. The 16 and 17 year olds have had enough of woke. They've had it shoved down their throats throughout school but have seen the actual reality on the ground. As usual, this will backfire on Labour. This will help Greens, Reform and Plaid Cymru - not Tory obviously and Labour will likely either lose out - or not gain anything.
You're forgetting now that teenagers have seen and lived the reality of diversity and gender rubbish throughout their school years.

How did that election work out?

 

[chris123]

How did that election work out?

2 out of 3?

 

[PalazioVecchio]

you can call me nuts. But i believe people's Voting Voice should reflect how much taxes they pay. Pay nothing into the system ? no vote.
Pay in a ton of money, like say a Premier League player........have extra votes.

How can you decide how the cake is divided when you brought no ingredients to the table ?

As well as people, we can include Corporate entities in this. If Google paid a billion quid into the State-coffers, give them a voice too.

16 year olds voting ? nope, that's a scam.

And the long-term unemployed ? why the hell should the tail wag the dog ?

 

[ASCPFC]

you can call me nuts. But i believe people's Voting Voice should reflect how much taxes they pay. Pay nothing into the system ? no vote.
Pay in a ton of money, like say a Premier League player........have extra votes.

How can you decide how the cake is divided when you brought no ingredients to the table ?

As well as people, we can include Corporate entities in this. If Google paid a billion quid into the State-coffers, give them a voice too.

16 year olds voting ? nope, that's a scam.

And the long-term unemployed ? why the hell should the tail wag the dog ?

I'm going to be frank about this again. It's the current 16 and 17 year olds that could be very helpful. You seem to think they are woke. Far from it in my experience. It's the twenty something's and middle aged women that are the woke class. Along with some ex hippies and well off drop outs.
16 and 17 year olds have been through the whole of school taught through woke. Yet, they've seen who the bullies, criminals, religious zealots, grasses, weirdos etc actually are throughout that experience. As woke does not mirror anything in the real and lived world.
All the teenagers I meet might accept gender and skin colour etc largely. I'm not talking about that. But positive discrimination, constant gender changes, furries, being told everyone loves everyone: it hasn't been that in experience. They are conservative in their beliefs: not nationalist, but largely capitalist. They're more likely to be influenced by Musk than their blue haired divorced mother who goes to all the marches. They think she's mad. Whether they are right or wrong is up to how you think.
That's my experience of them anyway. I don't speak about politics at all to my son or daughter. But both would vote Reform if they were in England. I gather that from things they say. And their mother is totally woke. That's a large part of what puts them off.
If you consider it, we rebelled by being anti authoritarian: punk, rave, drugs, drinking, fighting, sexual promiscuity. This young generation is rebelling against their indoctrination: which has been woke. Therefore their rebellion is conservative. They don't drink, they're not trans or gay, they're not looking positively at skin colour, it's all the same to them. The teenagers I meet are straight laced little bastards who frankly put me to shame with all of my debauchery. Try speaking to perhaps some of them in your own family. You might be surprised by the looks of things.
It's also become widely researched in academic terms. The youth are becoming little Tories basically - although they won't vote for anything that fuddy, duddy. They'll vote for Reform, particularly as they will have the best online campaign too.

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

I'm going to be frank about this again. It's the current 16 and 17 year olds that could be very helpful. You seem to think they are woke. Far from it in my experience. It's the twenty something's and middle aged women that are the woke class. Along with some ex hippies and well off drop outs.
16 and 17 year olds have been through the whole of school taught through woke. Yet, they've seen who the bullies, criminals, religious zealots, grasses, weirdos etc actually are throughout that experience. As woke does not mirror anything in the real and lived world.

It's also become widely researched in academic terms. The youth are becoming little Tories basically - although they won't vote for anything that fuddy, duddy. They'll vote for Reform, particularly as they will have the best online campaign too.

Interesting post. I have maintained the view that 16 year olds have no right to vote, but you may well be right about their changing perspective.

It's your last sentence that could be most relevant because we know how much these kids are influenced by social media.

 

[PalazioVecchio]

I'm going to be frank about this again. It's the current 16 and 17 year olds that could be very helpful. You seem to think they are woke. Far from it in my experience. It's the twenty something's and middle aged women that are the woke class. Along with some ex hippies and well off drop outs.
16 and 17 year olds have been through the whole of school taught through woke. Yet, they've seen who the bullies, criminals, religious zealots, grasses, weirdos etc actually are throughout that experience. As woke does not mirror anything in the real and lived world.
All the teenagers I meet might accept gender and skin colour etc largely. I'm not talking about that. But positive discrimination, constant gender changes, furries, being told everyone loves everyone: it hasn't been that in experience. They are conservative in their beliefs: not nationalist, but largely capitalist. They're more likely to be influenced by Musk than their blue haired divorced mother who goes to all the marches. They think she's mad. Whether they are right or wrong is up to how you think.
That's my experience of them anyway. I don't speak about politics at all to my son or daughter. But both would vote Reform if they were in England. I gather that from things they say. And their mother is totally woke. That's a large part of what puts them off.
If you consider it, we rebelled by being anti authoritarian: punk, rave, drugs, drinking, fighting, sexual promiscuity. This young generation is rebelling against their indoctrination: which has been woke. Therefore their rebellion is conservative. They don't drink, they're not trans or gay, they're not looking positively at skin colour, it's all the same to them. The teenagers I meet are straight laced little bastards who frankly put me to shame with all of my debauchery. Try speaking to perhaps some of them in your own family. You might be surprised by the looks of things.
It's also become widely researched in academic terms. The youth are becoming little Tories basically - although they won't vote for anything that fuddy, duddy. They'll vote for Reform, particularly as they will have the best online campaign too.

i would describe what you wrote as 'the Charlie Kirk effect'. And yes, you are correct. However, for reasons i mentioned above....i think the Sadiq khan effect will be here to stay , forever.
And i would assert that the latter outweighs the former. Especially for young voters.