Time to start doing Business Steve..!!

Teddy Eagle said:
That's the fear, isn't it? Or it should be if any one thinks about it. Sky are losing customers and its becoming more and more of luxury as times get harder. They're currently advertising that they're showing 215 games this season which is great if you want to watch 215 games when most of them don't feature your own club which, personally, I couldn't imagine doing.
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It’s the overseas markets that are keeping this afloat as uk market probably peaked now
 
whatton said:
Traditionally, football club directors were wealthy fans like Arthur Wait or Jack Walker at Blackburn who were happy to spend money to help the clubs they loved to achieve success. SP is much like this kind of director. But due to the amounts of money required, these are a dying breed.

There are nowadays directors who are happy to take a loss for reasons of sportswashing.

But between these extremes are directors such as Blitzer, Harris, and Johnson who have little emotional connection to their club, but presumably want some kind of financial advantage from ownership. I would say that most PL directors were of this type.

But I’m struggling to see how you might make money out of running a club like Palace.
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You can buy in for 70 mil. Put maybe 50mil into running costs. But then sell your shares for 190 mil maybe three or four years later - if the club has relative success. Textor for example was around that. That's not quite doubling your money, but not bad interest. All clubs doing ok in the Premier League are going up in value - not because of revenue streams or returns, but because there's always someone wanting to invest.
 
NEILLO said:
Not at all.

While we are quoting figures, Matt Woosnam in the Athletic posted that we have lost £200m over the last 5 years. Accurate ? I don't know.

If we then look at the other figures bandied about, Palace are still losing millions albeit staying on the right side of PSR. And some on here want us to use the £90m supposed ' headroom ' that we have to stay onside with the regulations. Not their money, and a very Rachel Reeves type approach. Also ignores the fact that the existing multi million pound debt needs to be serviced.

If John Textor had taken over, Palace would have been a version of Forest - shuffling monies between multi clubs in a MCO portfolio and spending like a drunken sailor. Just how sustainable that is I seriously question - we'll see.
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Its all above my head, but if someone on here can explain how we're in financial difficulties, id love to know. Our wage bill is usually reported around 65 million, most reports say our wage bill accounts for about 75% of the clubs running cost, we get 140 million a year in tv money and I think our net profit from transfers over the last 5 years is about -250 mill.
 
Plaistow Eagle said:
Mate - what fines are you going on about - as I mentioned before we are nowhere near breaching PSR.

The whole Europe thing as others have said has no bearing on available transfer funds - difference in revenue is marginal compared to current transfer costs/dealings.

Why are we waiting for players to leave before we do any deals - if we do that other teams will know we are desperate and just push the price up..!!

Based upon this window - the club is not well run and the model is not sustainable - we’ve gone backwards and are now in a race against time to get us back up to parity - at best - even then we’re probably going to have to pay well over the odds - because we’ve left our business too late again..!!

Get the nostalgia - I was born down Holmesdale Road, my first game we were in the old 3rd Division Rachid Harkouk and George Graham - team of the 80’s just emerging under Venables..!!

But we are no longer that team/club and we’ve got to get rid of that small team mentality..!!

COYP
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Well said, our antecedents speaks for itself, transfer after transfer window we do nothing until the last minute, then we end up with short term loans from clubs who want their players on the outside of the first team margins to get first team experience, or we end up signing players, who no one else wants, at inflated prices. I can't remember the last time we had a settled summer window and pre-season with all our business done. A good example of our mañana mentality relates to Dougie who announced he was leaving early this year and yet we have only just replaced him. Parish loves our uninterested American investors because they leave it all to him!
 
rikz said:
Its all above my head, but if someone on here can explain how we're in financial difficulties, id love to know. Our wage bill is usually reported around 65 million, most reports say our wage bill accounts for about 75% of the clubs running cost, we get 140 million a year in tv money and I think our net profit from transfers over the last 5 years is about -250 mill.
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I'm pretty sure Kieran Maguire of the price of football suggested there were some suspiciously high rental fees on a few properties on the end of year financial reports for Palace that he'd read. A good way to funnel money into pockets without showing you are taking money out of the club each year...

Of course this could be wrong...
 
Den1923 said:
Well said, our antecedents speaks for itself, transfer after transfer window we do nothing until the last minute, then we end up with short term loans from clubs who want their players on the outside of the first team margins to get first team experience, or we end up signing players, who no one else wants, at inflated prices. I can't remember the last time we had a settled summer window and pre-season with all our business done. A good example of our mañana mentality relates to Dougie who announced he was leaving early this year and yet we have only just replaced him. Parish loves our uninterested American investors because they leave it all to him!
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Probably never.

The same as every other club.

The Loan Market is there to be used. We had good service from the likes of Connor Gallagher and Trevor Chalobah. If you want to go way back - Ashley Cole ! They don't always work out but neither do permanent deals.

Who are the last minute players we signed at inflated prices ? I can only think of one recently and that's Nketiah. Can't think of any others but hopefully you will remind me.

Yes it's taken a long time to hire Dougie's replacement. Instead of just sniping, maybe consider that it's simply taken that long to get the preferred candidate in. And you're moaning about the lack of transfer activity, maybe, just maybe, Parish decided that Palace needed more experience in the DOF role than Ben Stevens has - hence Matt Hobbs being appointed.

Parish isn't perfect and we would all like players signed early in the transfer market. It's frustrating but there are usually valid underlying reasons why things don't happen. If he believes that's the best way for the club he runs to do its business then he's doing the job he's paid and entrusted to do. With his track record as our most successful person in the role, he's unlikely to change now.
 
whatton said:
Traditionally, football club directors were wealthy fans like Arthur Wait or Jack Walker at Blackburn who were happy to spend money to help the clubs they loved to achieve success. SP is much like this kind of director. But due to the amounts of money required, these are a dying breed.

There are nowadays directors who are happy to take a loss for reasons of sportswashing.

But between these extremes are directors such as Blitzer, Harris, and Johnson who have little emotional connection to their club, but presumably want some kind of financial advantage from ownership. I would say that most PL directors were of this type.

But I’m struggling to see how you might make money out of running a club like Palace.
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Dougie Freedman once told me you could make a small fortune out of owning a football club but only if you started with a big one.
 
rob1861 said:
I'm pretty sure Kieran Maguire of the price of football suggested there were some suspiciously high rental fees on a few properties on the end of year financial reports for Palace that he'd read. A good way to funnel money into pockets without showing you are taking money out of the club each year...

Of course this could be wrong...
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I am not an accountant but chartered financial planner by trade so reasonable grasp on accounts. Looking at the last published accounts we made an operating profit of nearly £30m, turnover increased and wages to revenue was falling and circa 55%. This would indicate club on a solid footing.

Loss reflects depreciation of assets and amortisation (so previous buys). No dividends taken and injection from owners in the year (I assume to support cash flow)

Overall my take club on solid financial footing but limited spare cash to make major purchases currently.

There may be some accountants amongst us who can give their view
 
I know this is a gross oversimplification but it seems to me there are two broad ways of running a football club.

There’s the Textor way: spending money you don’t have; shuffling money around hoping no one will notice there isn’t enough of it - until the wheels fall off as they did at Lyon.

Then there’s the Parish way: trying to live within your means and being generally cautious and, relatively, risk averse.

For fans, the Textor way is much more exciting; the Parish way is boring. Personally I prefer boredom to bankruptcy.

We have made steady, incremental progress, long may it continue.
 
rob1861 said:
I'm pretty sure Kieran Maguire of the price of football suggested there were some suspiciously high rental fees on a few properties on the end of year financial reports for Palace that he'd read. A good way to funnel money into pockets without showing you are taking money out of the club each year...

Of course this could be wrong...
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No, it's not wrong. Palace have a number of properties in the new Battersea Power Station regeneration, knew Wharton was in one when he 1st arrived here & the security is high-end especially with the American Embassy in the middle of it all.
 
Positive for a second. If Eze and Guehi were to go, in my view this would be a decent end to the window based on speculation we've heard:

£95m in for Guehi and Eze

El Khannouss - £30m
Dibling - £30m + Rak Sakyi
Centre Back - £20-30m
Martinez (Girona) - £5m + Edouard

Comes out break even, cover for Munoz, an extra body for when Sarr goes to Afcon.
 
whatton said:
Traditionally, football club directors were wealthy fans like Arthur Wait or Jack Walker at Blackburn who were happy to spend money to help the clubs they loved to achieve success. SP is much like this kind of director. But due to the amounts of money required, these are a dying breed.

There are nowadays directors who are happy to take a loss for reasons of sportswashing.

But between these extremes are directors such as Blitzer, Harris, and Johnson who have little emotional connection to their club, but presumably want some kind of financial advantage from ownership. I would say that most PL directors were of this type.

But I’m struggling to see how you might make money out of running a club like Palace.
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I'd say the majority of the value you can extract is on the exit. Eg Textor recently, and SP if he were to cash out looking at his initial investment. If that is correct, it means you need to buy at the right time and price to see a meaningful uplift.

In some ways football clubs can be a debt push down instrument during the holding period. This keeps the running costs lower (interest payments offset tax, for example) but it also hits cashflow and P&L (less cash to invest in playing squad). The Glazers at Man U were a good example of owners adopting this strategy.

Just the idea of discussing football clubs as financial instruments is quite sickening to me, but it's the world we live in sadly.
 
NEILLO said:
Probably never.

The same as every other club.

The Loan Market is there to be used. We had good service from the likes of Connor Gallagher and Trevor Chalobah. If you want to go way back - Ashley Cole ! They don't always work out but neither do permanent deals.

Who are the last minute players we signed at inflated prices ? I can only think of one recently and that's Nketiah. Can't think of any others but hopefully you will remind me.

Yes it's taken a long time to hire Dougie's replacement. Instead of just sniping, maybe consider that it's simply taken that long to get the preferred candidate in. And you're moaning about the lack of transfer activity, maybe, just maybe, Parish decided that Palace needed more experience in the DOF role than Ben Stevens has - hence Matt Hobbs being appointed.

Parish isn't perfect and we would all like players signed early in the transfer market. It's frustrating but there are usually valid underlying reasons why things don't happen. If he believes that's the best way for the club he runs to do its business then he's doing the job he's paid and entrusted to do. With his track record as our most successful person in the role, he's unlikely to change now.
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www.givemesport.com

Crystal Palace's worst 15 signings of all time

Crystal Palace have had some pretty terrible signings in the past, but none more so than these 15
www.givemesport.com www.givemesport.com
 
ASCPFC said:
You can buy in for 70 mil. Put maybe 50mil into running costs. But then sell your shares for 190 mil maybe three or four years later - if the club has relative success. Textor for example was around that. That's not quite doubling your money, but not bad interest. All clubs doing ok in the Premier League are going up in value - not because of revenue streams or returns, but because there's always someone wanting to invest.
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Of course, this is a risky activity for a money man, because if the club you own goes belly up like Sheffield Wednesday, you’re in big trouble.

Experienced money men will hedge risky bets like this, which makes the MCO model attractive.
 
NEILLO said:
Well I rest my case. None of them are recent or representative of what the club is now.
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There's also a difference between worst signings and worst players signed. Sorloth did nothing for us but has scored 43 in 70 games for Villarreal and Athletico Madrid. And we did sell him for a profit so worst signing is a bit of a stretch.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
I am not talking about fines on us! Fines on those clubs who do break the rules and just factor them in as part of the costs.

Parish has hinted that we have a difficult financial position at the moment, caused either by the need to pay instalments of past transfers or the repayment of debt. We don’t know if the sale of Textor’s shares to Johnson included the debt or whether that now needs repaying.

We aren’t awash with funds and whilst theoretically we could borrow short term if we know a sale is guaranteed and its value. The problem is they are never guaranteed until the medical is complete and the contract signed. Buying on credit before we sell is not our way. Overextending our debt is what gets clubs into problems.

As a long term fan you have witnessed the mess that Goldberg, and then Jordan, got us into. Do you seriously want those days back?
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No but I want us to build on the momentum that has been established and progress..!!

At the moment we are going backwards - that’s down to poor strategy and nothing else..!!
 
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