Chelsea vs. Crystal Palace match thread

[Willo]

Not strictly correct my friend. He was, at the point the ball was kicked, less than the proscribed 1m distance to the defending teams 'wall', not, him being less than 1m from an opponent, they are different in application of Law 13.

You are correct.
I am fully 'Au Fait' with Law 13 in respect of the situation we witnessed yesterday and I should have used 'Wall' instead of 'Opponent', accordingly 'Mea Culpa'.
Perfection is not in the human gift !

Where three or more defending team players form a ‘wall’, all attacking team players must remain at least 1 m (1 yd) from the ‘wall’ until the ball is in play.

 

[becky]

You are correct.
I am fully 'Au Fait' with Law 13 in respect of the situation we witnessed yesterday and I chose the wrong word, accordingly 'Mea Culpa'.
Perfection is not in the human gift !

Where three or more defending team players form a ‘wall’, all attacking team players must remain at least 1 m (1 yd) from the ‘wall’ until the ball is in play.

Well, which is it? 1 metre or 1 yard? Are referees now going to carry a tape measure (dual metric & imperial) according to country? 'Cos there's a 3" difference between those measurements.

 

[Willo]

VAR intervened when it was not their job to do so (not within their remit) and then when Guehi gets punched in the head they ignore it.

It is little wonder that people scream big team bias.

If there was no VAR we would have been 1-0 up, no argument and if VAR did its job properly then there is a good chance we’d have got the goal and had a penalty and possibly be 2-0 up. There is no denying we got shafted again although in terms of how we played, a draw was probably a fair result and I’ll never knock that result away at the Bridge.

VAR checks every goal to ensure it was scored fairly, including fouls etc.
We are not privy to the conversation between the VAR and Darren England in respect of the incident.

 

[Eaglecoops]

Well, which is it? 1 metre or 1 yard? Are referees now going to carry a tape measure (dual metric & imperial) according to country? 'Cos there's a 3" difference between those measurements.

Or 10 cm😁

 

[NEILLO]

Well, which is it? 1 metre or 1 yard? Are referees now going to carry a tape measure (dual metric & imperial) according to country? 'Cos there's a 3" difference between those measurements.

Does 3” really make a difference ?

Asking for a friend

 

[Willo]

Does 3” really make a difference ?

Asking for a friend

I shall have to ask my dear wife.
👍

 

[becky]

Does 3” really make a difference ?

Asking for a friend

On 15 yards, probably not, on 12", yes.

Your friend is obviously not a dressmaker........

 

[Putitout]

Anyone got any insight on the Glasner/Guehi moment at the end of the game?

Mainly the Red ,publications, that attach to Liverpool, have made anything of this.
They grasp at anything, they would like to think Marc hates being with Palace.
The truth might be Marc, doesn’t really fancy them, and Palace want a decent fee at this point in time. But who knows, the bloke does come across a bit sullen at times.

 

[Eaglecoops]

VAR checks every goal to ensure it was scored fairly, including fouls etc.
We are not privy to the conversation between the VAR and Darren England in respect of the incident.

So why did they ask England to look at the screen? If it was for a possible foul then that’s fine, if it was because of the encroachment then, according to Clattenberg, they have acted outside of their remit and should have not intervened.

If you listen to the Sky referee piece, he said that VAR have alerted the ref to encroachment.

So, who is wrong here, is it Clattenberg or is it Gallagher?

 

[ASCPFC]

VAR checks every goal to ensure it was scored fairly, including fouls etc.
We are not privy to the conversation between the VAR and Darren England in respect of the incident.

The conversation went Darren England: "Chelsea are supposed to be club world champions and they have billions of pounds. Yet they're s***. Can you help me out here?".
VAR "We're doing our best but it's hard to give a foul when you were right there. Give us a minute." "Oh, Howard's sent a WhatsApp. He says there's a cover all rule from 2019 that makes scoring from set prices impossible. We'll use that Darren, then tomorrow it can be human error that it wasn't our remit. Agreed Darren?". Darren, "Phew, agreed no goal. We all knew that rule". [Collective chuckle].

 

[Dumademption]

Personally I think VAR overreached with the goal and it is now going to be covered up by IFAB and the refs. Yes the rule has been in place for years and contrary to what people seem to be saying it is actually consistently enforced... by the referees on the field. If you look over the last few years you will commonly see the team taking a freekick making a second wall in front of the main wall or a referee marking the 1m gap. These are both changes from this rule and I think show that players and managers are aware of the rule and do act on it. I was definitely aware of the rule before yesterday and remember seeing it in action many times so I have no doubt that the players etc were aware of it.

However prior to yesterday I don't believe VAR has ever gotten involved as I believe they thought it was outside of VARs remit. The rule states:

'Where three or more defending team players form a ‘wall’, all attacking team players must remain at least 1 m (1 yd) from the ‘wall’ until the ball is in play.'

That last bit is key I believe as previously it has been interpreted as an issue before the restart has happened and therefore not reviewable by VAR, in the same way VAR will not review if a throw in or freekick was taken from the correct spot. That seems to have changed yesterday and I think the key question is whether the change came from IFAB as new interpretations distributed to referees before the season started. Personally I do not believe this is the case, I think what has happened is the VAR in this match was not aware of the previous interpretation so has incorrectly gotten VAR involved and by doing so has changed this interpretation. I suspect they will now of course get backing from VAR and IFAB who will claim this was always the correct interpretation however if you look at the information given out previously by VAR on incorrect decisions, they have never once included one of these fouls as an incorrect decision and I highly doubt they are now going to go back and retroactively announce they were wrong. I'm afraid the most likely course of action going forward is VAR saying they got the interpretation correct in this match and then forgetting about it come the next match of the season but I hope I am wrong.

 

[Dumademption]

Interesting read here The VAR Review: Explaining Eze's disallowed goal, and why Senesi escaped a red card

I guess this was always technically reviewable its just the refs never bothered with it before yesterday and I still strongly suspect they will not bother with it again this season. But its only 1 decision in a game and at the end of the day an away point at Chelsea is a good start to the season so we move on.

 

[park the bus]

Taking into consideration all that has been said, one must conclude that VAR should have not have got involved and the goal should have stood. What recourse does any club have for such a scenario, that is, referees and VAR assistants who do not know or knowingly do not follow the rule book?

 

[Willo]

Taking into consideration all that has been said, one must conclude that VAR should have not have got involved and the goal should have stood. What recourse does any club have for such a scenario, that is, referees and VAR assistants who do not know or knowingly do not follow the rule book?

The VAR reviews decisions in respect of goals etc.
We do not know the details of the communication between the VAR and Darren England.
It is feasible that he was advised to consult the monitor to review whether Guehi's action was a foul and having seen the footage he passed judgement on the proximity aspect of Law 13 in respect of a 'Wall'.
In the final analysis, Law 13 was applied correctly.

 

[Eaglecoops]

Personally I think VAR overreached with the goal and it is now going to be covered up by IFAB and the refs. Yes the rule has been in place for years and contrary to what people seem to be saying it is actually consistently enforced... by the referees on the field. If you look over the last few years you will commonly see the team taking a freekick making a second wall in front of the main wall or a referee marking the 1m gap. These are both changes from this rule and I think show that players and managers are aware of the rule and do act on it. I was definitely aware of the rule before yesterday and remember seeing it in action many times so I have no doubt that the players etc were aware of it.

However prior to yesterday I don't believe VAR has ever gotten involved as I believe they thought it was outside of VARs remit. The rule states:

'Where three or more defending team players form a ‘wall’, all attacking team players must remain at least 1 m (1 yd) from the ‘wall’ until the ball is in play.'

That last bit is key I believe as previously it has been interpreted as an issue before the restart has happened and therefore not reviewable by VAR, in the same way VAR will not review if a throw in or freekick was taken from the correct spot. That seems to have changed yesterday and I think the key question is whether the change came from IFAB as new interpretations distributed to referees before the season started. Personally I do not believe this is the case, I think what has happened is the VAR in this match was not aware of the previous interpretation so has incorrectly gotten VAR involved and by doing so has changed this interpretation. I suspect they will now of course get backing from VAR and IFAB who will claim this was always the correct interpretation however if you look at the information given out previously by VAR on incorrect decisions, they have never once included one of these fouls as an incorrect decision and I highly doubt they are now going to go back and retroactively announce they were wrong. I'm afraid the most likely course of action going forward is VAR saying they got the interpretation correct in this match and then forgetting about it come the next match of the season but I hope I am wrong.

Decent explanation thanks. Just to throw a curve ball in here. If Guehi moved into the wall before the ball had been kicked then surely the kick should be taken again as the ball was not in play?

 

[Dumademption]

Decent explanation thanks. Just to throw a curve ball in here. If Guehi moved into the wall before the ball had been kicked then surely the kick should be taken again as the ball was not in play?

No I don't think so. I think it would be considered similarly to a player encroaching during a penalty kick. The offence happens before the kick is taken but the end result is a freekick to the opposing team.

 

[Eagleman13]

Decent explanation thanks. Just to throw a curve ball in here. If Guehi moved into the wall before the ball had been kicked then surely the kick should be taken again as the ball was not in play?

How can you 'retake' a kick if it hasn't been kicked in the 1st place?

 

[Den1923]

I still don’t really understand this ‘new’ rule. Are attacking players now longer allowed to be in the wall? Or do they just need to have joined the wall before a certain point - a deadline if you will, in March perhaps?

 

[park the bus]

I would like to see free kicks taken quickly before the wall has a chance to form. It seems to me that the side that committed the initial foul gets to impose the criteria upon how the following play is implemented. If I recall correctly Thierry Henry once scored from a quickly taken free kick.

 

[DenTyler]

I wouldn't read much into it. I was there, Marc was one of the first of the team to come over and clap the fans with Richards and then walked off to the tunnel so he was probably just knackered after an intense game. It's just media trying to whip up a storm.

I'm not sure what it was but it was definitely something and it was not because he was knackered. He absolutely blanked the boss and you could see it was well and truly noticed by OG who then said something to JPM. Very odd? Has Ollie put his foot down and stopped any move happening this window.

Very out of character for MG.