War in Ukraine

Stirlingsays said:
No chance.

Sides are too far apart.

I hope your imagination is correct though.

But it looks like Russia will carry on until sometime till next year considering they are reported to have funded it till then.
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Ol’ Trumpy babes is going to have to get some 4D chess lessons - Putin playing him like a puppet at the moment.
 
I'm not quite sure what Zelensky is up to at the moment.

On the battlefield Ukraine are losing between 10 to 30 square km a day, so this idea that they won't be giving up any land seems divorced from reality.

Russia troops are in two cities this week.....I'm not sure what Zelensky is thinking here.
 
They are in more open land. As long as their front isn't collapsed they can't be flanked and rolled up like a carpet. An organised retreat will be expensive for Russia and in a couple of months grind to a halt again for winter.
 
Spindle said:
They are in more open land. As long as their front isn't collapsed they can't be flanked and rolled up like a carpet. An organised retreat will be expensive for Russia and in a couple of months grind to a halt again for winter.
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Well, if they can achieve that...and that's a big if (the month ahead will be fighting to keep control of two major cities) what they can achieve is entirely dependent on the money and weapons to keep flowing at the same rate.

Zelensky saying that he's not willing to give up land is likely to anger Trump....and Ukraine won't last long without the US money and weapons.

What doesn't make sense is that Ukraine don'e have the manpower to retake this land anyway. So my only conclusion to Zelensky's position is that he isn't willing to be a Michael Collins figure and end up dead from the nationalists for making peace.

As it looks currently the war is just going to carry on but the longer it goes the less likely Trump is going to stay in it.....I'll be amazed if he's involved by the mid terms.
 
Spindle said:
If he wants it over he'd be better off giving more now, else he's LOST to Putin and been made a fool of (has already)
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America have won in this war big-time.....the nord pipeline going down means Europe ships in and buys more expensive US energy. They have sold massive amounts of weapons (too much if you ask me as the US are low in stocks after Ukraine/Israel to counter a China/Taiwan threat)

What Putin does in Ukraine doesn't matter to the US....just as long as he doesn't interfere with his mineral deal.

As I suspected long ago, Trump will make some settlement with Putin that aligns with what EU/UK will accept and ignore Ukraine. If the EU/UK, don't accept it, he'll probably just drop the whole thing.
 
I've always said that the USA has profited from this. All those "billions spent" was spent in. 2005 anyway, and he's got nato spending more on defence, and a lot of US kit, all whilst weakening Russia, and putting apprehension into "One China".
 
Spindle said:
I've always said that the USA has profited from this. All those "billions spent" was spent in. 2005 anyway, and he's got nato spending more on defence, and a lot of US kit, all whilst weakening Russia, and putting apprehension into "One China".
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Yep, the US are doing fine and we are weaker.

Just like WW2....though I know we disagree on that.

Regardless the whole war p1sses me off.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Yep, the US are doing fine and we are weaker.

Just like WW2....though I know we disagree on that.

Regardless the whole war p1sses me off.
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No I agree. The USA made massive profit on WW2 whilst we got screwed.

Meanwhile, Ukraine will get carved up, Putin making a mug of Trump

news.sky.com

Lifting sanctions on Putin for Trump meeting is a massive victory for Moscow

To allow his visit to happen, the US Treasury Department will presumably have to lift sanctions on Vladimir Putin, as it did when his investment envoy Kirill Dmitriev flew to Washington in April.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
So what is going on? Trump wants three things. A richer America,A Nobel peace prize and thirdly a stoney faced Trump on Mount Rushmore. His route is firstly tariffs ,secondly get rid of the prosperous chunks of Ukraine to the aggresor to Russia earning him number two,and thirdly presidential faces on Mt. Rushmore are "earned" by president grabbing more land ,wether that is Greenland, Canada or wherever,the world needs a verylong spoon supping with Trump. What do you think the bromance between Vance and Lammy is leading to? Apologies for going on at a Sterling length, i like short and pithy.
 
Spindle said:
No I agree. The USA made massive profit on WW2 whilst we got screwed.

Meanwhile, Ukraine will get carved up, Putin making a mug of Trump

news.sky.com

Lifting sanctions on Putin for Trump meeting is a massive victory for Moscow

To allow his visit to happen, the US Treasury Department will presumably have to lift sanctions on Vladimir Putin, as it did when his investment envoy Kirill Dmitriev flew to Washington in April.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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The main reason I was against the war was for the fact that the odds were stacked in Putin's favour given the fact that Nato weren't going to officially pay the blood price. All Russia had to do was keep together and fight as hard as Ukraine and it wins based on manpower and production (exactly the same as WW2).

I was a neocon and supported both gulf wars and Libya and wanted intervention in Syria. I wanted all that smoke and I was wrong about all of it. I've since looked at history differently and read alternative takes on WW2 and now I'm convinced that moral takes on war are little more than propaganda.

I'd rather carry a big stick and stay out of tussles that only cost me.....if you are going to convince me to spunk my load there has to be a proper pay off.

The elites have one but the common man doesn't.....he gets burdened with the financial cost and with personal involvement the blood price....oh and in the modern day fecking immigration from conflict that he gets told he was responsible for.
 
Ukraine and Europe are against Putin's proposal for a ceasefire, as the Russian president wants significant territorial concessions, — WSJ

Macron: the future of Ukraine cannot be decided without Ukrainians.

Looks like positions are shaping up.
 
steeleye20 said:
I always thought the Russian speaking territories that wanted to belong to Russia should do so.
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It's certainly the basis of ending the war from the Russia side.

But it looks like this fecking thing is just going to carry on until the Russians choose to stop.

European politicians aren't going to accept that they made bad choices.
 
Rubio makes a statement that Macron 'shattered' Israel-Hamas ceasefire talks. His 'unilateral' decision to recognize the Palestinian state had UK and Canada follow suit

'If I’m Hamas, I’d basically conclude: ‘Let’s not do a ceasefire, we can be rewarded, can claim it as victory’.

My analysis of all that is that essentially the Trump administration is preparing for an anti EU position on both wars.
 
Spindle said:
Why am I not surprised you've been taken in by this claim.

We aren't talking about the Falklands or Gibraltar
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Rather you have been taken in by the claim that Putin wants the Soviet Union back.

Takes him three years to bring Ukraine to its knees and take twenty odd percent of Ukraine and you apparently think he's going to invade Poland.

Putin can't be blamed for not making his position clear on Ukraine near twenty years ago. This was a war of choice.
 
Poland was never part of the Soviet Union. It was just part of the Eastern Bloc.

Had Ukraine folded inside 2 weeks, had they not been given prepared support, then Putin would've had eyes on all other non NATO former USSR countries, and after that potentially the tiny countries of Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.
 
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