US Politics

[Rudi Hedman]

Remember Wilf? Ivory Coast born who moved over to south London as a toddler and came up through the youth system to essentially carry us in the Premier League for a decade?

Aaron Wan-Bissaka. Parents from DR Congo but Croydon born. That £50 million essentially built the new youth academy and training ground.

Victor Moses, from another refugee family, growing up in Croydon and going to Whitgift and his transfer fee helping us stay afloat.

Steve Parish embracing ‘south London and proud’ with Wilf, Sean Scannell, and Jonny Williams on a billboard as our early identifier and differentiator in his ownership to show that this is *our* part of London and what makes us ‘us’.

The HF with members of all sorts of backgrounds and very representative of the local area now globally recognised as one of the best fan bases not just in this country, but the world, with the support and tifos. Not even Wembley, but week in and week out.

But yeah, other than that, what has multiculturalism ever done for Palace?

Correct me if I’m wrong but I can only recall seeing 2 black lads in the HF. The rest are white from the suburbs. The ‘’we’re the boys from SE25’’ always makes me chuckle.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Again there is nothing wrong with immigrants coming over and being a credit to society and giving back to the community, working paying taxes etc.. as seen with likes of Zaha, Eze, Moses.

I myself have been an immigrant numerous times. I worked, paid my taxes and never had any freebies given to me. Oh and I also didn't commit any crimes.

I guess the looney lefties don't know the difference between legal and illegal immigration either.

I don’t see any “looney lefties” posting here! I do though see some seriously deranged hard righties who frequently conflate legal and illegal immigration.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Ebs’ parents were born in Nigeria but he was born in Greenwich. Glad they came to the UK or we would still be trophyless.

It still isn’t because the area or (South) London actually is multicultural. It is because of immigration in general. If there wasn’t any immigration or the level of immigration then the team(s) would be different here and everywhere.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Of course it is. He doesn't like that people have different political opinions so he makes up lies and conspiracy theories to defend his quest for censorship. We've seen it all before.

As someone who has been subjected to rotational fouling from the little cadre of the hard right who have washed up here and had their views protected, with some campaigning for my exclusion simply because I don’t agree with their prejudices, I find that remark a tad hypocritical.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It still isn’t because the area or (South) London actually is multicultural. It is because of immigration in general. If there wasn’t any immigration or the level of immigration then the team(s) would be different here and everywhere.

I think the whole debate about the multicultural aspect of South London misses the point. It’s not about the make up of the fan base. It’s the club’s ability to tap into the talent of people aspiring to find a pathway to riches for themselves and their family. Something Parish referenced when building the academy. It’s known that a disproportionately high number of recent football success come from the area and we want them to be ours. Not stolen from under our noses. It’s a long term aspirational project.

 

[Penge Eagle]

As someone who has been subjected to rotational fouling from the little cadre of the hard right who have washed up here and had their views protected, with some campaigning for my exclusion simply because I don’t agree with their prejudices, I find that remark a tad hypocritical.

"Rotational fouling" = a bunch of people who disagree with your posts.

Agree, you shouldn't be excluded from the site for your views but you're still here.

How are their views protected?

Don't you see that smearing people as "hard right" and "washed up here" doesn't quite make you the angel you might think you are.

 

[eaglesdare]

Guys it's only 1 more week till the football is back! Hang in there! 🤣

 

[Rudi Hedman]

I think the whole debate about the multicultural aspect of South London misses the point. It’s not about the make up of the fan base. It’s the club’s ability to tap into the talent of people aspiring to find a pathway to riches for themselves and their family. Something Parish referenced when building the academy. It’s known that a disproportionately high number of recent football success come from the area and we want them to be ours. Not stolen from under our noses. It’s a long term aspirational project.

I think I agree with a lot of this post. But I have to add a few points.

I think Penge mentioned the team of the ‘80s. That included many former youth players who were mainly white, plus Vince Hilaire. That wasn’t down to or because of colour. It just was. (Do we or their former clubs have the same view as Dan on Wharton and Devenney?)

Later on, during a leaner CPFC financial period, bigger clubs, especially Spurs and Arsenal were poaching more young talent in South London and Croydon. You can include Wimbledon over us and then Fulham.

We have always had a large catchment area for potential fans where a lot of people support bigger London clubs. We have always had a large pool of players to give trials to, but failed. How many kids from North London do we recruit? None. So we must protect our area. Race or ancestry is irrelevant.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

"Rotational fouling" = a bunch of people who disagree with your posts.

Agree, you shouldn't be excluded from the site for your views but you're still here.

How are their views protected?

Don't you see that smearing people as "hard right" and "washed up here" doesn't quite make you the angel you might think you are.

I see you edited out the request to name and shame! I wonder why.

Disagreement with arguments is fine. The rotational fouling occurs when personal insults, with little or no connection to any comment of mine, flood a thread with one after another joining in.

As a founder member of the site who tries to be careful and not reduce myself to the levels of some others I see no reason at all why I should be excluded. Being, incorrectly, accused of being a troll not counting.

As some of the views expressed flirt with being hate speech, at least to me, they probably wouldn’t survive in many other forums. In the past rules meant to avoid these, and personal attacks etc, have not been rigorously applied. Thus protected.

Describing a group of people as I, and I believe many out in the real world, perceive them is me expressing my own freedom of speech. If anyone feels smeared by the description that’s their free decision. They can always distance themselves from the group.

 

[cryrst]

So telling me to leave the site wasn’t trying to shut down my free speech?

You were never told to leave. That is what moderators decide. It’s in the rules. You were advised if it wasn’t for you, you could leave on your own free will. This isn’t the other one !

 

[cryrst]

I see you edited out the request to name and shame! I wonder why.

Disagreement with arguments is fine. The rotational fouling occurs when personal insults, with little or no connection to any comment of mine, flood a thread with one after another joining in.

As a founder member of the site who tries to be careful and not reduce myself to the levels of some others I see no reason at all why I should be excluded. Being, incorrectly, accused of being a troll not counting.

As some of the views expressed flirt with being hate speech, at least to me, they probably wouldn’t survive in many other forums. In the past rules meant to avoid these, and personal attacks etc, have not been rigorously applied. Thus protected.

Describing a group of people as I, and I believe many out in the real world, perceive them is me expressing my own freedom of speech. If anyone feels smeared by the description that’s their free decision. They can always distance themselves from the group.

Personal insults ? Some are so precious

 

[DanH]

"Rotational fouling" = a bunch of people who disagree with your posts.

Agree, you shouldn't be excluded from the site for your views but you're still here.

How are their views protected?

Don't you see that smearing people as "hard right" and "washed up here" doesn't quite make you the angel you might think you are.

Amusing that it’s most of those who can’t help themselves with the personal digs and snide remarks when Wisbech posts (and even when he doesn’t) that have liked this post.

Free rein to carry on carte Blanche.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Personal insults ? Some are so precious

Haven’t you ever been told you need to answer the comment and not attack the commenter? Have you never heard of an ad hominem and it’s potential to disrupt discussions?

It has nothing about me being “precious”. If I cared I would have been out of here decades ago. It’s water off a duck’s back to me! I regard it as pathetic, weak and humiliating for those who participate as it says how thin their real arguments are if that’s the best they’ve got.

 

[cryrst]

Haven’t you ever been told you need to answer the comment and not attack the commenter? Have you never heard of an ad hominem and it’s potential to disrupt discussions?

It has nothing about me being “precious”. If I cared I would have been out of here decades ago. It’s water off a duck’s back to me! I regard it as pathetic, weak and humiliating for those who participate as it says how thin their real arguments are if that’s the best they’ve got.

You are a grumpy old sod though 😂

 

[eaglesdare]

Bringing it back to US politics....this is the exact reason why Trump won. People are fed up being called "far right" or Nazis for having simple and resonable views on immigration .

This created a sense of resentment pushing voters towards trump who validated their concerns without judgment. And Trump has made no secret like he said in Scotland a few days ago that he based a lot of his campaign around immigration.

The looney wokie left’s rhetoric seemed to often lean on moral absolutism alienated people who would have been open to discussions.

Now will the looney lefties learn before the next election in the UK with Farage looking stronger? I doubt they will. They don't have much of brain between them in all honesty.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Bringing it back to US politics....this is the exact reason why Trump won. People are fed up being called "far right" or Nazis for having simple and resonable views on immigration .

This created a sense of resentment pushing voters towards trump who validated their concerns without judgment. And Trump has made no secret like he said in Scotland a few days ago that he based a lot of his campaign around immigration.

The looney wokie left’s rhetoric seemed to often lean on moral absolutism alienated people who would have been open to discussions.

Now will the looney lefties learn before the next election in the UK with Farage looking stronger? I doubt they will. They don't have much of brain between them in all honesty.

I don’t think they will ever budge on immigration, just like Starmer etc lie that they will address it, but anyone with any sense knows they won’t. As soon as I heard Starmer quote ‘Operation Scatter’ I knew we were definitely even more doomed than we were already.

But enough people oppose it and growing to vote them all out and hopefully Reform in.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You are a grumpy old sod though 😂

That’s completely untrue as anyone who actually knows me I am certain would confirm. I am affable, helpful and compassionate guy who has a generally positive view of people and of life. I just dislike the hard right.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Bringing it back to US politics....this is the exact reason why Trump won. People are fed up being called "far right" or Nazis for having simple and resonable views on immigration .

This created a sense of resentment pushing voters towards trump who validated their concerns without judgment. And Trump has made no secret like he said in Scotland a few days ago that he based a lot of his campaign around immigration.

The looney wokie left’s rhetoric seemed to often lean on moral absolutism alienated people who would have been open to discussions.

Now will the looney lefties learn before the next election in the UK with Farage looking stronger? I doubt they will. They don't have much of brain between them in all honesty.

Those who hold the views that are, quite correctly, described as hard right (not all of whom are truly far right and rarely truly Nazi) certainly hold simple views on immigration. That’s true, but not that they are reasonable. Their simplicity fails to take into account the huge complexity of the situation and the consequent inevitability of the movement of people in the modern world.

Pretending this doesn’t exist and that immigration can be eliminated is the fuel that powers populists like Trump and Farage. It’s because of lies (and corruption) that Trump won and why Reform with Farage are currently popular. Making promises is easy.

Getting a grip on illegal immigration has proved to be extremely challenging, whoever has been politically responsible. Should Reform form the next government, a prospect which seems very unlikely to me, then no doubt they would adopt some crowd pleasing policies. Just as Trump has done in the US. But at what cost? There is only one real solution. Which is to reduce the demand and to cut the supply chains. That demands international cooperation. We cannot just round people up and bus them back to Mexico. Our illegals have been moved by others from countries thousands of miles away and are claiming asylum. We also respect international law and the right to a fair trial.

 

[cryrst]

That’s completely untrue as anyone who actually knows me I am certain would confirm. I am affable, helpful and compassionate guy who has a generally positive view of people and of life. I just dislike the hard right.

So all ok on here then although do you not mean the far right which you use often and is it the same as hard right !

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Those who hold the views that are, quite correctly, described as hard right (not all of whom are truly far right and rarely truly Nazi) certainly hold simple views on immigration. That’s true, but not that they are reasonable. Their simplicity fails to take into account the huge complexity of the situation and the consequent inevitability of the movement of people in the modern world.

Pretending this doesn’t exist and that immigration can be eliminated is the fuel that powers populists like Trump and Farage. It’s because of lies (and corruption) that Trump won and why Reform with Farage are currently popular. Making promises is easy.

Getting a grip on illegal immigration has proved to be extremely challenging, whoever has been politically responsible. Should Reform form the next government, a prospect which seems very unlikely to me, then no doubt they would adopt some crowd pleasing policies. Just as Trump has done in the US. But at what cost? There is only one real solution. Which is to reduce the demand and to cut the supply chains. That demands international cooperation. We cannot just round people up and bus them back to Mexico. Our illegals have been moved by others from countries thousands of miles away and are claiming asylum. We also respect international law and the right to a fair trial.

Australia stopped it. Greece are stopping it.