Israel v Hamas

[ASCPFC]

Less lauded for his paintings
😕

Was our sponsor for a while

 

[Stirlingsays]

Less lauded for his paintings
😕

Not his main talent for sure.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Speculating about the existence of bias does not disprove anything.

I'm not speculating. I'm stating.

Have you looked into the background of these experts?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I'm not speculating. I'm stating.

Have you looked into the background of these experts?

Yes, I have. Have you?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Was our sponsor for a while

Our finest hour.

 

[Spindle]

I'll take that as a no, you don't have anything to back up your claim, but on we pivot to the next one.

Let's try (again) to factcheck this population claim that you keep banding about...

Who is counting the population in Gaza at the moment?

The IDF claim not to have a civilian death toll, and we all know HAMAS NUMBERS can't be trusted... so how could anyone possibly have an accurate count of the population?

So you trust the death figures to call for genocide but not when those figures are used to show you that it is not.

All we know is that after October 7 you believe that Israel should've just asked Hamas to hand back the hostages and offered them exile, for even more money to get them to accept. Did I get that right?

It's cuckoo mate

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So you trust the death figures to call for genocide but not when those figures are used to show you that it is not.

All we know is that after October 7 you believe that Israel should've just asked Hamas to hand back the hostages and offered them exile, for even more money to get them to accept. Did I get that right?

It's cuckoo mate

Is that what your increase in population claim is based on? The death toll presented by the UN against the number of births?

Who is recording births in Palestine?

No need to deflect again. You’ve made the claim repeatedly and held it up as the main proof that this is not a genocide, but whenever I ask about it you don’t seem to want to answer. Much like Penge’s ‘civilian combatant ratio’.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Yes, I have. Have you?

Well, you wasted your time.

You don't need to know, to know.

Besides obvious bias, how can one be an expert on Gaza?

Opinions by outsiders count for nothing, as I have explained.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Well, you wasted your time.

You don't need to know, to know.

Besides obvious bias, how can one be an expert on Gaza?

Opinions by outsiders count for nothing, as I have explained.

So, no you haven’t, but you’re still going to lecture me about why you’re right, even when fundamentally misunderstanding what type of expert is being discussed - brilliant. 10/10.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

So, no you haven’t, but you’re still going to lecture me about why you’re right, even when fundamentally misunderstanding what type of expert is being discussed - brilliant. 10/10.

I'm not lecturing you. I'm responding to your naive rambling about right and wrong.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I'm not lecturing you. I'm responding to your naive rambling about right and wrong.

Your entire argument is essentially a padded out version of ‘war is scary’ on repeat.

And you accuse me of naivety.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Your entire argument is essentially a padded out version of ‘war is scary’ on repeat.

And you accuse me of naivety.

War is obviously scary. No one needs to be told that, surely.

No, my argument is that your claims lack any nuance or an understanding of the environment in which this war is happening.
It is a one sided and naive view by someone who appears not to grasp the situation Israel is in, it's strategic importance to the West and the dilemma created by the October 7 attacks.

What exactly were Israel to do after such heathenistic attack on their people? Don't be telling me that Israel has no business existing. For better or worse it does and it is expanding. Its neighbours want to destroy it. What should Israel do?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

War is obviously scary. No one needs to be told that, surely.

No, my argument is that your claims lack any nuance or an understanding of the environment in which this war is happening.
It is a one sided and naive view by someone who appears not to grasp the situation Israel is in, it's strategic importance to the West and the dilemma created by the October 7 attacks.

What exactly were Israel to do after such heathenistic attack on their people? Don't be telling me that Israel has no business existing. For better or worse it does and it is expanding. Its neighbours want to destroy it. What should Israel do?

I understand all of those things, I just don’t agree with you that it justifies what Israel are doing.

This constant framing that the only options available to Israel are to be invaded and slaughtered or to behave as they have done is just inherently flawed, and as I’ve pointed out numerous times, the only extension of that logic is to permit Israel to commit every and any atrocity they see fit to.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I understand all of those things, I just don’t agree with you that it justifies what Israel are doing.

This constant framing that the only options available to Israel are to be invaded and slaughtered or to behave as they have done is just inherently flawed, and as I’ve pointed out numerous times, the only extension of that logic is to permit Israel to commit every and any atrocity they see fit to.

You didn't answer the question. What should Israel do?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You didn't answer the question. What should Israel do?

The same as any Western state who are victims of a terrorist attacks: enforce their borders, conduct targeted military operations against those responsible, respect your commitments to international law and try not to commit warm crimes.

Again, the framing that this was only possible path was for to Israel to walk is just flawed.

 

[Spiderman]

The same as any Western state who are victims of a terrorist attacks: enforce their borders, conduct targeted military operations against those responsible, respect your commitments to international law and try not to commit warm crimes.

Again, the framing that this was only possible path was for to Israel to walk is just flawed.

And we did this after 7/7? Serious question how could you conduct military operations against those responsible when you may not know their nationality? Thousands crossing the Channel undocumented Could carry out similar attacks, where do you direct your military operations against those responsible?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The same as any Western state who are victims of a terrorist attacks: enforce their borders, conduct targeted military operations against those responsible, respect your commitments to international law and try not to commit warm crimes.

Again, the framing that this was only possible path was for to Israel to walk is just flawed.

You are purposefully avoiding the obvious reality that Hamas are elected by the Palestinian people and use civilians and civilian buildings as shields for their operations.

The reality is that if Israel only bombed military targets, they would have nothing much to bomb.

Israeli civilians were killed and kidnapped on Israeli soil. What sort of retaliation would have been acceptable for you? Blowing up a couple of rocket launchers perhaps?

 

[Teddy Eagle]

After a year and 2877 posts we've got nowhere here.
My questions are:
1.if anyone attacks Israel then what response are they expecting?
2. What response will they be expecting following the current reaction?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You are purposefully avoiding the obvious reality that Hamas are elected by the Palestinian people and use civilians and civilian buildings as shields for their operations.

The reality is that if Israel only bombed military targets, they would have nothing much to bomb.

Israeli civilians were killed and kidnapped on Israeli soil. What sort of retaliation would have been acceptable for you? Blowing up a couple of rocket launchers perhaps?

If true then they stop bombing and use their superb intelligence and surveillance capabilities to gradually eliminate those involved, whilst strengthening their defences, maintaining a blockage of military hardware and allowing aid to get to the innocent.

It requires a different mindset, which does exist in Israel but not in the current government. The current tactics have a different agenda to simply defeating Hamas in plain sight and all the excuses in the world cannot disguise them.

 

[Spindle]

Is that what your increase in population claim is based on? The death toll presented by the UN against the number of births?

Who is recording births in Palestine?

No need to deflect again. You’ve made the claim repeatedly and held it up as the main proof that this is not a genocide, but whenever I ask about it you don’t seem to want to answer. Much like Penge’s ‘civilian combatant ratio’.

I'm not giving you exact figures, I'm just saying that the population is increasing, not decreasing. That's all you need to disprove the ludicrous claim that the Gazans are being deliberately wiped out