Labour Party politics

[CPFCSaturn]

If you want to actually spend the value of your home to live on, you either remortgage, which a pensioner can't afford to do. Or you sell. Why should they sell? It's their house bought and paid for. It's their pension they paid for too. It's hardly emotional or hyperbole. It's the realistic, logical outcome.
My home isn't included within my wealth - until I die. I don't count it as money - does anyone? Only the government and tax man - and clearly the statistics people where it suits them. Nobody's residence is their value. Now, second homes - like nearly every MP has. That's different. Tax that at income tax rates. But it won't happen will it.

Because having the option to refinance or sell your incredibly valuable asset for vastly more than you paid for it is a luxury most young people today will never have - framing that as someone being 'forced out of their home' is unnecessarily emotive.

Generation rent being hopped about every 12 months with never-ending rent increases, but god forbid a pensioner has to move home to realise enormous gains on an asset???

Absolutely my home is included in my wealth, because if I ever lost my job or fell into financial hardship, I am lucky enough to be able to sell it to get myself out of that hole.

 

[NEILLO]

Yes, obviously you have to generalise in these discussions because we can't do individual analysis of the financial position of millions of pensioners in the country - do we really need a disclaimer that 'not every house has increased 10x in value' and 'not every pensioner is rich'? It's very obvious.

My experience of being a pensioner will be VASTLY different to that of pensioners today, that's for sure.

Again, it's not a mantra - it's a fact. You might not like the fact, but it's still true.

'' it's very obvious '' but you chose not to put a disclaimer as you call it in because it doesn't suit your narrative.

You carry on hiding behind that demographic stat to suit your purposes. I neither have a like or dislike of the fact. But I'm seeing the bigger picture - actually I'm living it.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Probably true that your government pension will be worse in real terms. But that doesn't mean we have to resent the pensioners of today. House ownership models will likely have changed too.
Try to have a good private pension. I've a bit of one but I also want my British and Irish pensions that I have paid for.

Again, I don't like the emotive framing that I'm being 'resentful'.

I don't resent pensioners at all - I just want our fiscal policy to accurately reflect the huge generational imbalance in wealth that currently exist.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

'' it's very obvious '' but you chose not to put a disclaimer as you call it in because it doesn't suit your narrative.

You carry on hiding behind that demographic stat to suit your purposes. I neither have a like or dislike of the fact. But I'm seeing the bigger picture - actually I'm living it.

I didn't put a disclaimer because it's so blatantly obvious Neillo - it doesn't need saying.

I'm not sure how I am hiding anything - I am openly sharing my views - you just don't like them because it would hurt your pocket.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Truss is the system - her whole IEA/neoliberal theory of less regulation, less government, more 'free markets' is just a juiced up version what we already have, and that's failed by every metric going.

The suggestion that just doing more of it will solve the problem doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe you're right.

But my point was she was going for growth and radically going against what the system wanted.

Thatcher got her way with radical neoliberal economic policy in 79, Truss didn't.

I'm not saying whether it would have worked or not.....what I'm saying is that the current pathway won't anyway and they chose not to change it up.

 

[NEILLO]

Because having the option to refinance or sell your incredibly valuable asset for vastly more than you paid for it is a luxury most young people today will never have - framing that as someone being 'forced out of their home' is unnecessarily emotive.

Generation rent being hopped about every 12 months with never-ending rent increases, but god forbid a pensioner has to move home to realise enormous gains on an asset???

Absolutely my home is included in my wealth, because if I ever lost my job or fell into financial hardship, I am lucky enough to be able to sell it to get myself out of that hole.

You're just generalising all over the place.

And isn't '' god forbid '' somewhat emotive ?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Maybe you're right.

But my point was she was going for growth and radically going against what the system wanted.

Thatcher got her way with radical neoliberal economic policy in 79, Truss didn't.

I'm not saying whether it would have worked or not.....what I'm saying is that the current pathway won't anyway and they chose not to change it up.

Certainly no disagreement on that.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You're just generalising all over the place.

And isn't '' god forbid '' somewhat emotive ?

I can't discuss policy based on your circumstances alone Neillo. To discuss state policy which will impact millions of people, we're going to have to generalise a bit.

 

[Stirlingsays]

One thing I will say is that for generation rent....the young generation who have had the ladder pulled up......they won't even get the opportunity to be living a bit less of a nice lifestyle than they would prefer.

They will be well and truly fecked.....kind of powerless owning nothing.

Their pensions won't be worth a pot to piss in and they will work till they drop or starve like our great grandfathers did.

Unless AI and automation truly changes the picture.....and more importantly works in their favour and not just in the favour of our dearly beloved capitalists......Who I would suggest have a direct interest in a well functioning economy that can afford its products.

 

[NEILLO]

I didn't put a disclaimer because it's so blatantly obvious Neillo - it doesn't need saying.

I'm not sure how I am hiding anything - I am openly sharing my views - you just don't like them because it would hurt your pocket.

Oh right....sorry but I'm not buying that.

I'm openly sharing my views too. Just not via demographic stats is all.

At which point did I say that your views would hit my pocket ?

 

[NEILLO]

I can't discuss policy based on your circumstances alone Neillo. To discuss state policy which will impact millions of people, we're going to have to generalise a bit.

I wasn't discussing State Policy.

I was discussing your approach to the pensioners wealth demographic.

Anyway, neither of us are going to budge on this so let's not continue to waste one anothers time !

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Oh right....sorry but I'm not buying that.

I'm openly sharing my views too. Just not via demographic stats is all.

At which point did I say that your views would hit my pocket ?

When there's a report that says 'house prices are up by 6%' do they put a disclaimer to say "not every house in the country has gone up by 6%'? They don't, because it's f***ing obvious.

 

[Badger11]

One thing I will say is that for generation rent....the young generation who have had the ladder pulled up......they won't even get the opportunity to be living a bit less of a nice lifestyle than they would prefer.

They will be well and truly fecked.....kind of powerless owning nothing.

Their pensions won't be worth a pot to piss in and they will work till they drop or starve like our great grandfathers did.

Unless AI and automation truly changes the picture.....and more importantly works in their favour and not just in the favour of our dearly beloved capitalists......Who I would suggest have a direct interest in a well functioning economy that can afford its products.

My own feeling is that AI will massively increase the number of unemployed people in this country.

However I have long been retired. I was speaking to a neighbour who is a senior at a large UK insurance company and he thinks that it wont generate the savings that corporate expect. For every person they lay off there are the costs of development and cloud computing and support. I'm not sure I agree with him but he's at the coal face and I am talking theory.

 

[ASCPFC]

My own feeling is that AI will massively increase the number of unemployed people in this country.

However I have long been retired. I was speaking to a neighbour who is a senior at a large UK insurance company and he thinks that it wont generate the savings that corporate expect. For every person they lay off there are the costs of development and cloud computing and support. I'm not sure I agree with him but he's at the coal face and I am talking theory.

If Spotify playlists are anything to go by, AI has a long way to go yet. The most "Terminator" it is currently is within the Ryanair chat bot. That would wipe out humanity in a heartbeat, if it could afford to bring its servers as carry on.

 

[NEILLO]

When there's a report that says 'house prices are up by 6%' do they put a disclaimer to say "not every house in the country has gone up by 6%'? They don't, because it's f***ing obvious.

Not answering my question I see -

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Not answering my question I see -

Blimey, you literally said "Anyway, neither of us are going to budge on this so let's not continue to waste one anothers time"!

 

[NEILLO]

Blimey, you literally said "Anyway, neither of us are going to budge on this so let's not continue to waste one anothers time"!

And then a minute after that you post in reply to me - and having the class to swear in it as well - congratulations.

Don’t bother answering my question, you couldn’t anyway

 

[CPFCSaturn]

And then a minute after that you post in reply to me - and having the class to swear in it as well - congratulations.

Don’t bother answering my question, you couldn’t anyway

Goodness me you're precious - I'd already sent that reply before I saw your post, which I then gave a 'thumbs up' in agreement as an end to it. Sorry if a bit of swearing offends you 🤣

Sure, let's keep going - do they include a disclaimer like you suggest in articles about house prices? Or does everyone already understand how an average works?

Your question that you seem to think is a big 'gotcha' doesn't even make sense: "At which point did I say that your views would hit my pocket ?" - I have never remotely claimed you said that.

 

[NEILLO]

Goodness me you're precious - I'd already sent that reply before I saw your post, which I then gave a 'thumbs up' in agreement as an end to it. Sorry if a bit of swearing offends you 🤣

Sure, let's keep going - do they include a disclaimer like you suggest in articles about house prices? Or does everyone already understand how an average works?

Your question that you seem to think is a big 'gotcha' doesn't even make sense: "At which point did I say that your views would hit my pocket ?" - I have never remotely claimed you said that.

It wasn’t me that said it that’s why - it was you - your post of 2.30 earlier.

Swearing only offends me when there is a lack of respect attached to it - that’s not being “ precious “

There’s no “ gotcha “ at all.

 

[cryrst]

With respect, it's a statistical fact.

Of course within any demographic there are going to be exceptions and outliers, and of course support should be available to those who need it.

So why has he backed off the benefits jobby.
This statement fits that as well !