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Reform

Wisbech Eagle said:
I lived through it too. I am 80 and a grown up throughout our entire membership.

You are talking billhooks.

There was a relatively small, but very noisy, anti Europe, caucus throughout our membership. Most just accepted it as the new reality. Especially the young for whom it provided new opportunities and a different identity. It only grew when UKIP started its populist nonsense and was placing the blame for everything on the EU.

You might have just been surrounded by those making similar noises or reading the tripe published by the right wing tabloids. It was never true of most of us.
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But the public were lied to, as initially it was a small common market, and we were to become members of that. In reality the powers that be knew what it was to become and that certainly isn’t what we joined. My dad ran a small business when we joined, it was a nightmare and he could foresee what it was to become. I’m sure he is turning in his grave but possibly with a wry smile as he was proven correct
 
Spiderman said:
But the public were lied to, as initially it was a small common market, and we were to become members of that. In reality the powers that be knew what it was to become and that certainly isn’t what we joined. My dad ran a small business when we joined, it was a nightmare and he could foresee what it was to become. I’m sure he is turning in his grave but possibly with a wry smile as he was proven correct
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Not in my opinion, nor that of those I talk to about this subject.

The European project evolved and grew for sure but progress is like that. We have elected representatives to determine our best interests and how to manage things. We don’t expect, or need, to be consulted at every turn and to throw the country’s future to the winds of chance or the whims of Murdoch or Harmsworth influence.

Maybe your Dad’s business was part of the past and not one for the future. I obviously don’t know but change is inevitable and you either adjust or you perish. My grandfather owned a large chain of horse chandlers sited all over London. When cars and trucks replaced horses his competitors starting selling petrol, turned their yards into garages and prospered. My grandad didn’t and went bankrupt. The family downsized from a Mansion in Ealing, to a 2 up 2 down in the suburbs without the staff they had been used to.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
Not in my opinion, nor that of those I talk to about this subject.

The European project evolved and grew for sure but progress is like that. We have elected representatives to determine our best interests and how to manage things. We don’t expect, or need, to be consulted at every turn and to throw the country’s future to the winds of chance or the whims of Murdoch or Harmsworth influence.

Maybe your Dad’s business was part of the past and not one for the future. I obviously don’t know but change is inevitable and you either adjust or you perish. My grandfather owned a large chain of horse chandlers sited all over London. When cars and trucks replaced horses his competitors starting selling petrol, turned their yards into garages and prospered. My grandad didn’t and went bankrupt. The family downsized from a Mansion in Ealing, to a 2 up 2 down in the suburbs without the staff they had been used to.
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Sweet shops still exist, as far as I know
 
Matov said:
Which I suspect is the point of it.
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So what do you think is going on then?

What conspiratorial shenanigans are taking place?
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
So what do you think is going on then?

What conspiratorial shenanigans are taking place?
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My basic premise is that the British Establishment effectively operates within the safety confines of a Uniparty. Labour and the Tories basically ape each in Government. Sure, there are some minor differences with each having to throw a bone to their own radical elements but you tend to get the same thing happening. There is no major shake up, no matter what is promised in manifesto's. Not even going to bother listing them because this is just fact.

Farage is there to effectively as a a lightning rod for popular discontent. Make the right noises, rally the masses but when push comes to shove, will effectively act in a manner that benefits the Uniparty.

Reform are meant to poll around 20%. At the most. And when the next GE comes around, do some deal with the Tories. But the polling is not showing that. And we have a political Establisment finally waking up to the fact that the great unwashed are no longer listening to what the mainstream media tells them. The average punter no longer buys a daily newspaper, let alone takes any notice of what it tells him or her to vote. The average punter no longer cares about being labelled a racist because they think its a liberty to have literally hundreds of illegal migrants being given escorts into British ports by the Coast Guard. And a host of other supposed shibboleths that kept us all in check.

Reform are winning elections. By-elections. Council elections. Literally turning safe Labour and Tory seats. s***, even polling 25% plus in Scotland. In what had been a SNP safe seat.

So Reform have to be curtailed. Farage ordered to cause it to implode. So he is part of a plot to get Rupert Lowe, its MP who is clearly most in tune with the public, reported to the police for literally nothing. And then this current farce.

Reform are there, much like Tommy Robinson, to act as Judas animals in an abbatoir To have people back them only for both, in different ways, to deliberately discredit themselves.

Is there an alternative? I genueinly cannot see one at the moment. My hope is that it emerges. But don't die on a hill for either Farage or Robinson. They are controlled opposition.
 
Matov said:
My basic premise is that the British Establishment effectively operates within the safety confines of a Uniparty. Labour and the Tories basically ape each in Government. Sure, there are some minor differences with each having to throw a bone to their own radical elements but you tend to get the same thing happening. There is no major shake up, no matter what is promised in manifesto's. Not even going to bother listing them because this is just fact.

Farage is there to effectively as a a lightning rod for popular discontent. Make the right noises, rally the masses but when push comes to shove, will effectively act in a manner that benefits the Uniparty.

Reform are meant to poll around 20%. At the most. And when the next GE comes around, do some deal with the Tories. But the polling is not showing that. And we have a political Establisment finally waking up to the fact that the great unwashed are no longer listening to what the mainstream media tells them. The average punter no longer buys a daily newspaper, let alone takes any notice of what it tells him or her to vote. The average punter no longer cares about being labelled a racist because they think its a liberty to have literally hundreds of illegal migrants being given escorts into British ports by the Coast Guard. And a host of other supposed shibboleths that kept us all in check.

Reform are winning elections. By-elections. Council elections. Literally turning safe Labour and Tory seats. s***, even polling 25% plus in Scotland. In what had been a SNP safe seat.

So Reform have to be curtailed. Farage ordered to cause it to implode. So he is part of a plot to get Rupert Lowe, its MP who is clearly most in tune with the public, reported to the police for literally nothing. And then this current farce.

Reform are there, much like Tommy Robinson, to act as Judas animals in an abbatoir To have people back them only for both, in different ways, to deliberately discredit themselves.

Is there an alternative? I genueinly cannot see one at the moment. My hope is that it emerges. But don't die on a hill for either Farage or Robinson. They are controlled opposition.
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OK, I get all that.

All I would say is that it is very easy to establish a theory and then fit the facts in such a way that appears to prove it.

I suppose we will all find out when the nation decides again.

My concern is that Reform will split the right wing vote and allow Labour back in.
The Tories have become the third party. I don't see how your scenario makes much sense for them.
 
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