US Politics

[Stirlingsays]

I'm not really sure what this has to do with my post on Tesla's flailing share price, but sure...

Musk is unpopular outside of the US, it's not really specific to left-wingers - your average middle-England conservative is not generally a fan either.

You have a lot more admiration for Musk's 'achievements' than I do, but I certainly don't recall him ever being 'treated like a king' until he became Trump's little side kick.

A small apology insomuch as I added the stock point in a later edit.

The only reason Musk would be unpopular on the right in England is because the mainstream media is mostly socially liberal and have been propagandizing against him and Trump since they turned up.

Why else would British conservatives be against Musk?......I'd suggest that you are talking more to the left wing/social liberals of the Conservative party.....which admittedly is a large part of its MP base and a reducing minority part of its grass roots.

Reform have probably the largest poll support in the country and I doubt Musk is unpopular with them.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

A small apology insomuch as I added the stock point in a later edit.

The only reason Musk would be unpopular on the right in England is because the mainstream media is mostly socially liberal and have been propagandizing against him and Trump since they turned up.

Why else would British conservatives be against Musk?......I'd suggest that you are talking more to the left wing/social liberals of the Conservative party.....which admittedly is a large part of its MP base and a reducing minority part of its grass roots.

Reform have probably the largest poll support in the country and I doubt Musk is unpopular with them.

No problem.

I think suggesting this recent drop in share price is based on emotional feeling is way wide of the mark. Tesla has had a hugely inflated stock for many years (inflated versus the fundamentals you would normally use to value a stock), and as I pointed out, the recent drops are linked to very poor sales figures in Q1 of this year. Q4 of 2024 was not great either. There are very clear technical reasons why the share price has been and is falling.

I think Elon is popular with the online sort of 'anti-woke' demographic on the right, but much less so with more traditional conservatives - the main driver of the dislike amongst that group would be his repeated 'interventions' into UK (and others) political affairs.

Admittedly there's a reasonable percentage of the right who like the half-truths and cooked up theories that Musk perpetuates around Starmer, but I expect there's a larger percentage who still find that sort of carry on very distasteful. Play the ball not the man etc.

 

[Stirlingsays]

No problem.

I think suggesting this recent drop in share price is based on emotional feeling is way wide of the mark. Tesla has had a hugely inflated stock for many years (inflated versus the fundamentals you would normally use to value a stock), and as I pointed out, the recent drops are linked to very poor sales figures in Q1 of this year. Q4 of 2024 was not great either. There are very clear technical reasons why the share price has been and is falling.

I think Elon is popular with the online sort of 'anti-woke' demographic on the right, but much less so with more traditional conservatives - the main driver of the dislike amongst that group would be his repeated 'interventions' into UK (and others) political affairs.

Admittedly there's a reasonable percentage of the right who like the half-truths and cooked up theories that Musk perpetuates around Starmer, but I expect there's a larger percentage who still find that sort of carry on very distasteful. Play the ball not the man etc.

It's a good post.....though come on....most of the 'half truths and cooked up theories' that the more dissident right....and also left have followed have turned out to be more full truth than half.

Covid lab, lockdowns, Russia-gate, Ukraine are some that come to mind.

I agree that Tesla stock is valued on projection rather than fundamentals......but due to the reasons I gave I think that projection is rational.....At the end of the day it's having the brightest minds working for you that succeeds.

It's why....in my view...that unless the American system listens to Musk on attracting talent rather than tick boxes it's going to lose massively to China in technology and thus hegemony and god knows what else. Perhaps the damage done is already too much.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Funny isn’t it, this Labour government are making a mess of many things but we are told “ they’ve only been in power for 8 months and were left a mess by the Tories”. Trump has been in 4 months, perhaps give him time to see if he is proven to be right. If not, unleash your Trump fury by all means, If so, would you ever admit he was correct? 🤔

According to you Labour are making a mess of things. Other opinions exist. Most being that the mess already existed and events since, notably those in the USA, aren’t making things easier. Whoever was currently in charge of the UK government would undoubtedly be accused of making a mess of things.

Trump’s on another level entirely. He has created chaos not just in the USA but globally. There are very few countries not condemning what he is doing and those that aren’t only don’t because it suits their own agendas.

There is no prospect of time changing this. Certainly not for the world’s economic prospects and very little for the USA’s. His attitude has always stunk. He proved he was incompetent in his first 4 years. No one needed another 4 months to make that judgement. That time has only confirmed it.

I would happily give him time, but where he deserves it. Sitting on his own looking at 4 bare walls.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Trump’s policies are pushing hard for U.S. mining and supply chain control, cutting reliance on China. It's all part of the master plan of tariffs. It is leveling the playing field, protecting innovators like Tesla from China’s cheap knockoffs.

Have you actually driven a Chinese made vehicle and compared it to a Tesla? They are neither cheap nor knockoffs these days.

By chance I was at a BYD dealer today and was told that they have recently seen an upsurge in sales, including many to Tesla owners determined to free themselves of the image now associated with that brand. They said when they see a Tesla passing they know it’s about to come and see the.

You might think that is an apocryphal story but it’s not. It happened this morning.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

But you see... There's a "22 billion pound" black hole labour have to fill 😯

There was certainly a legacy but how big is irrelevant. What isn’t are the circumstances that we must now face. Any government would struggle and become unpopular because those that have to take actual decisions always are. In the current situation it’s impossible to be popular and effective. Trying to maintain some kind of balance between the two inevitably means neither gets done well

 

[CPFCSaturn]

It's a good post.....though come on....most of the 'half truths and cooked up theories' that the more dissident right....and also left have followed have turned out to be more full truth than half.

Covid lab, lockdowns, Russia-gate, Ukraine are some that come to mind.

I agree that Tesla stock is valued on projection rather than fundamentals......but due to the reasons I gave I think that projection is rational.....At the end of the day it's having the brightest minds working for you that succeeds.

It's why....in my view...that unless the American system listens to Musk on attracting talent rather than tick boxes it's going to lose massively to China in technology and thus hegemony and god knows what else. Perhaps the damage done is already too much.

I'm talking specifically about the Musk/Starmer dynamic when I talk about half-truths.

Time will tell on Tesla, but I sold up about a month ago and I think we are a long way from the bottom of that ride. And for transparency, my plan is to buy back in when I think we are!

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Have you actually driven a Chinese made vehicle and compared it to a Tesla? They are neither cheap nor knockoffs these days.

By chance I was at a BYD dealer today and was told that they have recently seen an upsurge in sales, including many to Tesla owners determined to free themselves of the image now associated with that brand. They said when they see a Tesla passing they know it’s about to come and see the.

You might think that is an apocryphal story but it’s not. It happened this morning.

It may not be so much a political decision as a financial one.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Causing chaos 🤦🏻‍♂️ Impeach him!

You judge an economy after 1, 2, 4 years. Not in a matter of months.

Not if the path being followed leads to recession, harm at home and chaos elsewhere.

You don’t need 4 minutes to judge Trump. He has form, is unrepentant and quite possibly unhinged.

 

[Spiderman]

Trump will continue to be compared with whoever is appropriate of that a I am sure.

It’s not simply deciding not to buy a Tesla that’s emerging as the protests. It’s all things American. Tourism is down too. Both ways. People are deciding not to go there and American tourists are feeling uncomfortable abroad. This will last until the Trump era fades into the past.

Whether you think it’s ridiculous or not hardly matters. Others don’t. They feel disgusted at what has happened and want no part of it.

Went to US in January and used to go every year pre-Covid/ retirement. Maybe the cost of the airfares plays a large part in the lack of tourism, certainly from the UK. All those pesky air taxes imposed, can’t blame Trump for those ( although I’m sure you will try). I don’t believe for one minute people refuse to go to US for holiday because of who the President is.

 

[Spiderman]

Not if the path being followed leads to recession, harm at home and chaos elsewhere.

You don’t need 4 minutes to judge Trump. He has form, is unrepentant and quite possibly unhinged.

Lucky you are over it ( your words not mine) 🤣

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

It was okay to cause "Chaos" over a "killer virus" I'm sure we can get through a few temporary tariffs.

The only things that caused any chaos during the pandemic was the virus itself, our lack of a known cure and the slowness of the initial responses.

Who knows whether the tariffs are temporary. Even if they were all withdrawn tomorrow immense harm has already been done because trust and confidence has been destroyed. They could be withdrawn tomorrow but back on and doubled on Thursday. With Vatican City being granted an exemption until next Monday in deference to the Pope.

 

[Spiderman]

Have you actually driven a Chinese made vehicle and compared it to a Tesla? They are neither cheap nor knockoffs these days.

By chance I was at a BYD dealer today and was told that they have recently seen an upsurge in sales, including many to Tesla owners determined to free themselves of the image now associated with that brand. They said when they see a Tesla passing they know it’s about to come and see the.

You might think that is an apocryphal story but it’s not. It happened this morning.

Of course it did 😂😂

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Lucky you are over it ( your words not mine) 🤣

I am over arguing about the election result.

Not the consequences of it.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

OK, if you think it's acceptable to compare someone with a dictator responsible for the deaths of 75,000,000 people just because you don't like him.
America will survive without overly precious tourists stamping their feet because an election didn't go the way they wanted.

For the second time no one is comparing Trump with Hitler. All that’s done is point out when some of his attitudes, statements and actions throw out shadows of that time.

Of course America will survive but it’s not a sign of a healthy, well respected economy if people don’t want to go there.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I'm talking specifically about the Musk/Starmer dynamic when I talk about half-truths.

Time will tell on Tesla, but I sold up about a month ago and I think we are a long way from the bottom of that ride. And for transparency, my plan is to buy back in when I think we are!

If I remember correctly Musk was attacking Starmer over the grooming gangs?

I don't remember the specifics.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

For the second time no one is comparing Trump with Hitler. All that’s done is point out when some of his attitudes, statements and actions throw out shadows of that time.

Of course America will survive but it’s not a sign of a healthy, well respected economy if people don’t want to go there.

Sure. Carry on conflating the two.
No one knows how much tourism is down due to financial constraints; it's down here too.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I don't know if you trade stocks at all, but this is a really poor analysis - Tesla's price has been steadily dropping for a while now, and is down nearly 11% in the last week - currently trading at 227.50 versus a high around 480 in December.

Their Q1 sales are due to be published today and by all accounts it does not make pretty reading with sales way down, particularly in Europe where Musk is very unpopular.

On top of that, Chinese competition in the EV space is improving all of the time.

Tesla have some interesting product ideas down the line, but a bad track record of meeting their own deadlines on these sort of things - long term they may recover, but the short term doesn't look rosy at all. Expect the share price has a way to drop yet.

OK, I was simply making the point which you make much better. Tesla are in a mess and Musk is making it worse. I don’t see it recovering unless Musk does a 180 and starts to go after Trump or he gets moved out of it in some way.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

OK, I was simply making the point which you make much better. Tesla are in a mess and Musk is making it worse. I don’t see it recovering unless Musk does a 180 and starts to go after Trump or he gets moved out of it in some way.

It's conceivable that the richest man in the world might know what he's doing.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

OK, I was simply making the point which you make much better. Tesla are in a mess and Musk is making it worse. I don’t see it recovering unless Musk does a 180 and starts to go after Trump or he gets moved out of it in some way.

I think there's a very reasonable chance it does recover in the long term - it's clearly an innovative business and like it or not, they are at the forefront of one of the largest emerging sectors in the world with more brand recognition than most of their competition combined.