Sage SACKED, according to reports

People talk about Sage's lack of experience, but Fabian Hürzeler actually had less experience than Sage when Brighton appointed him. Keith Andrews was promoted from within. Arbeloa had managed just 28 senior games when he was chosen by Fulham. For me, in the long term, the issue is not the amount of experience; it is getting the right fit for the path the club want to choose. Is there a plan? Or was Sage chosen simply because he'd had some success in France? We don't know that. What does seem apparent is that the small/mid-sized clubs with seemingly the best scouting networks are the ones who are punching - like Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth. It would make sense that these clubs also use their scouting networks to identify the right manager.

Right now, we need someone with experience who can steady the ship, get us organised, and make us competitive. It's frustrating; we had a chance to reset, and instead we have gone backwards and find ourselves needing a firefighter again.
In terms of Hurzeler and Andrews some would recognise similarities in that both are at clubs whose recruitment models are much admired.
Brentford's last 2 appointments have been in-house, Frank replacing Smith and Andrews replacing Frank.Their model is built so that the club's identity and transfer strategy belong to the institution and not the manager and this system ensures smooth transitions when a manager departs.
 
As weird as it seems I’d actually just sit it out with Sage (provided he’s got the support of the dressing room). I’m not saying we should, I’m just saying as me, the fanatical supporter, I would.

We played really well against Liverpool for large periods of the game. I’ve enjoyed going to games this season and our attacking play has been a pleasure to watch. Not something we will be able to say with Dyche, Frank or Roy in charge!

Yes we’ve been shocking in defence but he’s also had a lot of misfortune with Lacroix & Munoz being sold, Hendo, Tomiyasu, JPM and Sarr being injured plus red card suspensions and Sarr’s tantrums.

I’d back him with top class defensive re-inforcements in January and stick with him.

Fergie was one game from the sack and look how that turned out. Frank had a very poor start at Brentford, as did Glasner with us and last Season Br*ghton supporters were desperate to get rid of Hürzeler because they said he was f*cking clueless!

We’ve been singing his name loud & proud at matches, not one banner or chant calling for his head.
I love our club and what it stands for. Just think how good the bond between club, supporters and manager would be if he turned this around and came through it all.
Even if I agreed that we should ride it out until January, I have no confidence that the club would do as you suggest.

This situation is far for being all on Sage, but it's always the manager that pays the price for poor results.
 
In terms of Hurzeler and Andrews some would recognise similarities in that both are at clubs whose recruitment models are much admired.
Brentford's last 2 appointments have been in-house, Frank replacing Smith and Andrews replacing Frank.Their model is built so that the club's identity and transfer strategy belong to the institution and not the manager and this system ensures smooth transitions when a manager departs.
I think you can extend that model to the players that they sign as well.
 
In terms of Hurzeler and Andrews some would recognise similarities in that both are at clubs whose recruitment models are much admired.
Brentford's last 2 appointments have been in-house, Frank replacing Smith and Andrews replacing Frank.Their model is built so that the club's identity and transfer strategy belong to the institution and not the manager and this system ensures smooth transitions when a manager departs.
Internal appointments worked for Liverpool for 25 years.
 
What he did with Lyon, and then Lens was seriously impressive. Lens particularly.

Everyone loves banging the experience drum, especially premier league experience. Talking like its an absolute mandatory.

Most successful managers in the prem had no previous prem experience
He was sacked at Lyon and Lens could prove to be something of a one season wonder.

I agree that experience isn't always of paramount importance, but it sure is when you're in the relegation struggle that we look like being in.
Personally I would not trust Sage in such a struggle and it would appear that the club has reached the same conclusion.
 
In many ways you make a persuasive case, but I honestly don't think we can continue to concede an average of 2.4 goals per game under Sage.
That's the bottom line.

No I know (said with a large degree of resignation)

You’re right of course, it HAS to change and I dare say it will be because of a change in manager rather than what I would like to happen.
 
You are confusing the lack of public pronouncements with procrastination.

I don’t think for one moment that nothing is happening. Delaying the announcements until all the ducks are in a row is how we do things. Steve doesn’t react to media speculation or pressure.
and he will wait until the the last day before our next EPL game!
 
What he did with Lyon, and then Lens was seriously impressive. Lens particularly.

Everyone loves banging the experience drum, especially premier league experience. Talking like its an absolute mandatory.

Most successful managers in the prem had no previous prem experience
I don't have a recollection of opining that PL experience is essential as I recognise managers who have been successful have arrived from abroad.
I have given weight to those who have 'Plied their trade' in the so called 'Top Five Leagues'.
 
He was sacked at Lyon and Lens could prove to be something of a one season wonder.

I agree that experience isn't always of paramount importance, but it sure is when you're in the relegation struggle that we look like being in.
Personally I would not trust Sage in such a struggle and it would appear that the club has reached the same conclusion.
Sean Dyche has been 'In such trenches' at Burnley, Thomas Frank has not had this experience in the PL.
 
What he did with Lyon, and then Lens was seriously impressive. Lens particularly.

Everyone loves banging the experience drum, especially premier league experience. Talking like its an absolute mandatory.

Most successful managers in the prem had no previous prem experience
Agreed.

It's easy now to say that we should have gone with a Frank or a Dyche from the outset, but Sage would have been on the radar for a lot of clubs after what he did in France.

Sage's lack of experience was a concern, but as is the case with promising players, if we want to beat the bigger clubs to a promising individual we usually have to get in there far earlier, thereby taking a risk they are less prepared to take. Another season (or even less) doing well at Lens, and Sage could well have been out of reach.

His style of play was also a concern, but we had just won three trophies in a year and were going into Europe-proper. I can understand why Parish didn't want to miss any chance there might have been to maintain the once-in-a-lifetime momentum by hiring a guy who has a bit of a go. Plus, it's not unrealistic for Parish to think Sage would keep his core principles but make reasonable adjustments to suit the circumstances at Palace. He doesn't seem to have done that, or indeed be able to. I don't feel that is on Parish.

That said, Parish does of course have ultimate reasonability for these key decisions, and I don't doubt he accepts that over the last year a lot of them, either in isolation or in combination, have not worked. He might also accept that the ways in which it hasn't worked were not wholly unpredictable.

I felt in the summer that we were already firmly on the downward slope of the 'buy-develop-sell-begin again' cycle, that harder times would continue until everyone who had achieved all they could with Palace and wanted to leave had been replaced by hungry talent, and that the process may take at least another year during which time we would be highly vulnerable, not just because of the loss of quality, but the break up of the spine and heart of the team. I feel the latter was particularly overlooked.

It was always going to be a transition period, and a difficult one to manage. I said at the time that we should have prioritised experienced campaigners to see us through, and begin the next phase of developing talent far more slowly and later on. A steady hand manager would have made far more sense in the circumstances.

Thing is, that doesn't mean it could only ever have gone as it did, or that the risks were not worth taking. If we were 15th right now, watching Dyche-ball every week, we would all be bemoaning the club's lack of ambition and failure to maintain positive momentum by appointing someone like that 'Sage' bloke who we were linked with!

Many of us are being wise after the event, even if some of us predicted this, or were at least worried about it. At the risk of repeating myself: There is a difference between incompetence or negligence on one hand, and a set of reasonable decisions that ultimately didn't work, on the other.
 
What he did with Lyon, and then Lens was seriously impressive. Lens particularly.

Everyone loves banging the experience drum, especially premier league experience. Talking like its an absolute mandatory.

Most successful managers in the prem had no previous prem experience
To coin a cliché it's Catch-22. No one has Premier League experience until they get some. It may help to have worked as a No. 2 but success is hardly guaranteed.
Planning is difficult when many decisions are reactive - we're winning so let's buy some new players so we win more, we're losing so let's buy some new players and sack the manager and coaching staff.
 
Agreed.

It's easy now to say that we should have gone with a Frank or a Dyche from the outset, but Sage would have been on the radar for a lot of clubs after what he did in France.

Sage's lack of experience was a concern, but as is the case with promising players, if we want to beat the bigger clubs to a promising individual we usually have to get in there far earlier, thereby taking a risk they are less prepared to take. Another season (or even less) doing well at Lens, and Sage could well have been out of reach.

His style of play was also a concern, but we had just won three trophies in a year and were going into Europe-proper. I can understand why Parish didn't want to miss any chance there might have been to maintain the once-in-a-lifetime momentum by hiring a guy who has a bit of a go. Plus, it's not unrealistic for Parish to think Sage would keep his core principles but make reasonable adjustments to suit the circumstances at Palace. He doesn't seem to have done that, or indeed be able to. I don't feel that is on Parish.

That said, Parish does of course have ultimate reasonability for these key decisions, and I don't doubt he accepts that over the last year a lot of them, either in isolation or in combination, have not worked. He might also accept that the ways in which it hasn't worked were not wholly unpredictable.

I felt in the summer that we were already firmly on the downward slope of the 'buy-develop-sell-begin again' cycle, that harder times would continue until everyone who had achieved all they could with Palace and wanted to leave had been replaced by hungry talent, and that the process may take at least another year during which time we would be highly vulnerable, not just because of the loss of quality, but the break up of the spine and heart of the team. I feel the latter was particularly overlooked.

It was always going to be a transition period, and a difficult one to manage. I said at the time that we should have prioritised experienced campaigners to see us through, and begin the next phase of developing talent far more slowly and later on. A steady hand manager would have made far more sense in the circumstances.

Thing is, that doesn't mean it could only ever have gone as it did, or that the risks were not worth taking. If we were 15th right now, watching Dyche-ball every week, we would all be bemoaning the club's lack of ambition and failure to maintain positive momentum by appointing someone like that 'Sage' bloke who we were linked with!

Many of us are being wise after the event, even if some of us predicted this, or were at least worried about it. At the risk of repeating myself: There is a difference between incompetence or negligence on one hand, and a set of reasonable decisions that ultimately didn't work, on the other.
I think this is in many ways a fair analysis, but if reports are to be believed Parish had doubts about Sage as far back as September.
It sounds as if the fundamentals and basics weren't right, and this could be lack of due diligence, misunderstandings over objectives, failures on communication etc.

I suppose football management is a strange and erratic business.
Le Bris at Sunderland was my manager of the year last season, but now he's under severe pressure.
Carrick propelled Man Utd to the Champions League last season but is now about to be sacked.
As is said, you're usually 6 games away from the sack in football.
 
I think this is in many ways a fair analysis, but if reports are to be believed Parish had doubts about Sage as far back as September .
It sounds as if the fundamentals and basics weren't right, and this could be lack of due diligence, misunderstandings over objectives, failures on communication etc.

I suppose football management is a strange and erratic business.
Le Bris at Sunderland was my manager of the year last season, but now he's under severe pressure.
Carrick propelled Man Utd to the Champions League last season but is now about to be sacked.
As is said, you're usually 6 games away from the sack in football.
Much as I feel for him with the s*** show he had to come into, I had my doubts when I heard his first interviews after games in Como. This just didn’t seem like a man with the personality to motivate a squad of highly paid premier league luvvies, especially if the going gets tough
 
In many ways you make a persuasive case, but I honestly don't think we can continue to concede an average of 2.4 goals per game under Sage.
That's the bottom line.
The problem will happen if they keep conceding 2.4 goals under Frank, Dyche, or whatever firefighter replacement they have in mind to try to protect their investment in the greed league. You do have a point that it is unsustainable though. It was unsustainable as soon as the transfer window closed.
 
Much as I feel for him with the s*** show he had to come into, I had my doubts when I heard his first interviews after games in Como. This just didn’t seem like a man with the personality to motivate a squad of highly paid premier league luvvies, especially if the going gets tough
I agree Bromley. He may (or may not) be OK tactically, but unfortunately, he doesn't come across as an 'over the top lads, let's go get em' kinda guy.

The fact that English is not his native language probably doesn't help either. Frankly, I'm often surprised how some foreign managers are able to communicate their messages clearly to players at all.
 
He’s not animated at all on the touchline during games. I’m not saying that he has to be like the last manager, who acted like he’d eaten the world’s biggest bag of Haribo before kick-off, but at least try to act a bit enthusiastic and motivational!!
 
If there'd been continual progression in the performances under Sage I wouldn't be so anti him staying. But they haven't, it's been very erratic. Some decent halves, spells here and there. But we've looked vulnerable in nearly every game, not solely because of, but a large contributing factor being the tactics.

The wins in the league could very easily have been losses where the opposition missed numerous glorious chances. A win is a win I know, but you can't expect to win many like that

The defensive metrics are damning, and the main excuse for this is because we've played more expansive attacking football... But have failed to score in half of our league games and have one of the worst % possession in the league. That is a recipe for relegation.

Sage was dealt a poor hand, but he's playing his hand poorly.

I can't say I feel super confident that someone else will make us a lot better...but at this stage it's a risk we have to take as sticking with Sage will only go in one direction... Sadly I've not seen any evidence to the contrary.
 
Last edited:

Holmesdale Online Shop

Back
Top