Sage in or out

[BromleyMonkey]

We might all be pleasantly surprised today !

Is the lumberjack suspended? 🤣

 

[PatrickA]

I'm as fickle as the next fan.

When Roy was manager at times he had Townsend almost as a second right back, covering and defending in his own half rather than troubling the opposing defence.
I saw it as almost anti football.

We now have Sage who is almost the opposite in approach and I'm not that keen either.

Is it asking too much for a team with balance- with defenders whose prime objective is to stop goals and forwards whose prime objective is to create/score with midfielders who do a bit of both depending upon how a game is going?

No more wingers being 'number 10s' or central defenders pretending to be midfielders or narrowing the pitch with inverted play.
When I was coached ( admittedly many years ago).we were coached to use the full width of the pitch, find space and have wingers 'with chalk on their boots' in terms of positioning.
Football is a simple game and simplicity can be genius in football.

 

[Willo]

Is the lumberjack suspended? 🤣

Suspended from a tree !

 

[bright&wright]

Granted that this is a forum for the exchange of ideas, views, prejudices and the odd rant, the truth, I suspect, is that Sage has forgotten more about football than the vast majority of his critics will ever know. Perhaps only those who have done their UEFA coaching badges should venture an opinion. This isn't Champ Man.

"Should venture an opinion". Thanks for taking time out from posting on the Guardian to join the chat.

Does Parish have a UEFA coaching badge? Was he wrong to sack De Boer, who most likely did have one?

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Whatever happened to our resolute defending? Never seen better than the FA Cup final against Man City. We are nowhere near this level now. Yes, Guehi, Lacroix and Munoz have gone but we shouldn’t be as shambolic as we are. Whether we play a low block or a high press. Unfortunately, this is Sage’s responsibility. I liked Viera and wanted the best for FDB but I think we will get smashed today and that will be the end of Sage. I sincerely hope I am wrong.

It's hard to know what is down to organisation and what is down to personnel.

That's the crux of it. Little of what we have heard or seen of Sage suggests a proven organiser of defences, but it's hard to say for sure because the sample size of his career is so limited and we also suspect our defenders aren't that good.

At the same time, whilst we suspect that our defenders aren't particularly good, we can't know that for sure because it feels like they are playing for a coach who fails to organise them well!

If we had Roy, Pulis, Glasner, or anybody else who we knew to be a proven defensive organiser, then we could more comfortably put our openness down to the quality of our defenders. If we still had La croix, Guehi, and Munoz then we could comfortably put it down to Sage!

That same uncertainty extends into the future. Of course, it's a lot easier (and likely) to change the manager than the players. That doesn't mean we don't need better defenders, though.

I could imagine us sacking Sage, appointing a new manager to organise us defensively, but also reinforcing with a new defender or two in January. The end result being that we improve at the back but never really know if the problem was Sage or the players!

My own instinct is that the defensive arrangement is not just wrong for our particular players, but wrong generally. I am aware, though, that Sage isn't the only unproven new element.

 

[park the bus]

It's hard to know what is down to organisation and what is down to personnel.

That's the crux of it. Little of what we have heard or seen of Sage suggests a proven organiser of defences, but it's hard to say for sure because the sample size of his career is so limited and we also suspect our defenders aren't that good.

At the same time, whilst we suspect that our defenders aren't particularly good, we can't know that for sure because it feels like they are playing for a coach who fails to organise them well!

If we had Roy, Pulis, Glasner, or anybody else who we knew to be a proven defensive organiser, then we could more comfortably put our openness down to the quality of our defenders. If we still had La croix, Guehi, and Munoz then we could comfortably put it down to Sage!

That same uncertainty extends into the future. Of course, it's a lot easier (and likely) to change the manager than the players. That doesn't mean we don't need better defenders, though.

I could imagine us sacking Sage, appointing a new manager to organise us defensively, but also reinforcing with a new defender or two in January. The end result being that we improve at the back but never really know if the problem was Sage or the players!

My own instinct is that the defensive arrangement is not just wrong for our particular players, but wrong generally. I am aware, though, that Sage isn't the only unproven new element.

Simply put, if Sage can't organise what he has in front of him into anything resembling a functional defensive unit then it's down to him. I look at what Pulis did with the players available to him and there's no comparison. So yes, it's Sage, his methods, his tactics.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Simply put, if Sage can't organise what he has in front of him into anything resembling a functional defensive unit then it's down to him. I look at what Pulis did with the players available to him and there's no comparison. So yes, it's Sage, his methods, his tactics.

I don't disagree, and expect that even if Sage had the FA cup winning players implementing his approach, we would still look disjointed.

That said, whilst I can imagine someone like Dyche going to a 451 and drilling the team into better defensive cohesion, I find it hard to imagine he wouldn't also press the club to get him a better right back and a senior centre back at the earliest opportunity.

Ultimately, when you've got average defenders it's all the more essential to adopt a solid defensive structure. If nothing else, Sage is responsible for not doing that, or appears unable to. So far, anyway.

 

[Team of the (20)80s]

It's hard to know what is down to organisation and what is down to personnel.

That's the crux of it. Little of what we have heard or seen of Sage suggests a proven organiser of defences, but it's hard to say for sure because the sample size of his career is so limited and we also suspect our defenders aren't that good.

At the same time, whilst we suspect that our defenders aren't particularly good, we can't know that for sure because it feels like they are playing for a coach who fails to organise them well!

If we had Roy, Pulis, Glasner, or anybody else who we knew to be a proven defensive organiser, then we could more comfortably put our openness down to the quality of our defenders. If we still had La croix, Guehi, and Munoz then we could comfortably put it down to Sage!

That same uncertainty extends into the future. Of course, it's a lot easier (and likely) to change the manager than the players. That doesn't mean we don't need better defenders, though.

I could imagine us sacking Sage, appointing a new manager to organise us defensively, but also reinforcing with a new defender or two in January. The end result being that we improve at the back but never really know if the problem was Sage or the players!

My own instinct is that the defensive arrangement is not just wrong for our particular players, but wrong generally. I am aware, though, that Sage isn't the only unproven new element.

Agreed. I think it’s clearly an element of both, just difficult to know how much.

Munoz, Guehi and LeCroix brought such stability and the loss of them would hurt any team… but Richards, Wharton, Lerma and Mitchell have collectively looked far chaotic defensively under Sage, I don’t think that is just down to missing their esteemed colleagues.

That said I am still on the fence as I hope there has been some lessons learned and progress, e.g. Leeds/Fulham clean sheets and Richards’ form, and sacking the manager brings great stability in the short term. It’s just confusing as to how different we played vs Newcastle and Fulham - expansive or low block.

 

[Runningman]

I have engaged in communication with a plethora of supporters apropos Sage.
Some are of the view that the season is in its infancy, he has faced extenuating circumstances and should be afforded time to steer the ship out of pitchy seas.
Others are mindful of the above but have concluded that he is the wrong person for the job and as such a change is necessary.These souls point to his inexperience as a manager and being thrust into the PL in difficult circumstances is very challenging for him.
Some have got splinters on their rump, due to 'Sitting on the fence' !
It has been well documented that I had reservations about this appointment even before the season commenced but I wished him every success on HOL and hoped he succeeded.

I was speaking to learned gentlemen at my golf club this morning. It was very interesting what they had to say.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I was speaking to learned gentlemen at my golf club this morning. It was very interesting what they had to say.

Coincidentally I was speaking to a complete bonehead up the pub and he had nothing interesting to say although he did say a lot of it.
He's probably posting the same thing somewhere.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

We might all be pleasantly surprised today !

Why, will be see a new Sage, Back 4, 3 in CM, wingers on the wing, or will he be sacked,

 

[ASCPFC]

I was speaking to learned gentlemen at my golf club this morning. It was very interesting what they had to say.

Did they mention Dyche?

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Why, will be see a new Sage, Back 4, 3 in CM, wingers on the wing, or will he be sacked,

Be quite ironic if he does all that then we still lose and he gets sacked.

 

[ASCPFC]

Be quite ironic if he does all that then we still lose and he gets sacked.

I'd say the only thing that would save Sage is at least a win and a draw in our next three games. With no very poor performances. Any ridiculous total capitulations and he's gone. Spurs is a dangerous game for him as it will matter more to the board than Liverpool. Surrender tamely here and he's French toast.

 

[MarkA333]

If Mateta can take his chances, we have a sniff here. Counter attacking.

 

[Runningman]

Did they mention Dyche?

Funnily enough

 

[ASCPFC]

Dawson talking about the value of clean sheets. Our clean sheets are straight out of the launderette.

 

[Putitout]

If Mateta can take his chances, we have a sniff here. Counter attacking.

Agree if we take our chances, but if our defending is going to give up chances as it has in so many of our games getting a result will be really difficult. Get the defending right we can beat anyone.