Fulham vs. Crystal Palace League Cup match thread

[Plaistow Eagle]

Let’s be totally honest - we did not deserve to win last night - performance follows the same downward spiral of recent performances - irrespective of the result.

This will not change until either Sage accepts the 3 at the back formation is wrong, given the options we have available.

Or most likely Sage is sacked and the new manager comes in and does exactly that..!!

It’s as plain on the nose on your face we need to go to a back four, 3 in midfield and then 2 behind the central striker.

That in mind I would go if all fit;

Henderson
Minguieza
Richards
Desasi
Mitchell
Wharton
Timber
Kamada
Sarr
Pino
Mateta

This is solid and provides enough creativity and pace.

COYP

 

[Elphers40]

The first half performance was what I expected from a group of players who hadn't played a real game together previously. They got better as the game went on. I don't suddenly think everything is now ok. Not at all, Saturday will be the real acid test of whether or not Sage is beginning to sort out defensive issues.

I agree.
Sadly I have seen nothing to suggest Sage is even trying to remedy our very obvious defensive frailty. This very unwelcome habit of leaving 2 opponents yards of space at our back post has not been addressed since Man City!

I think we have some really good talent going forward- but without a solid foundation (or coach who recognises the necessity of it in the Premier League) we are going to be in trouble.

I am reluctantly coming round to the notion that a change of manager might be the only solution.

The game would have been beyond us by half time had Fulham not been so sh1te.

 

[doombear]

Let’s be totally honest - we did not deserve to win last night - performance follows the same downward spiral of recent performances - irrespective of the result.

This will not change until either Sage accepts the 3 at the back formation is wrong, given the options we have available.

Or most likely Sage is sacked and the new manager comes in and does exactly that..!!

It’s as plain on the nose on your face we need to go to a back four, 3 in midfield and then 2 behind the central striker.

That in mind I would go if all fit;

Henderson
Minguieza
Richards
Desasi
Mitchell
Wharton
Timber
Kamada
Sarr
Pino
Mateta

This is solid and provides enough creativity and pace.

COYP

Of course we deserved to win - we scored and they didn't. They played half of their first team whereas we played just 2 of ours, one of whom had just come back from a 2 month injury.

Our B team had their first outing in a real game and obviously found it difficult at the start but they stuck at it, got better and, with the help of sensible subs in the 2nd half, got the job done. The fact that Fulham failed to take their chances is of little concern to us - we had a couple of decent chances in the 2nd half which we failed to take but nobody mentions those - it's only the ones the oppo miss that people want to hit Sage and Palace with.

For example, on Sunday, Newcastle had an XG of just 0.98 whereas ours was 1.69. Does that mean Newcastle didn't deserve to win? Of course not, they took their chances whereas we didn't take ours.

 

[silvertop]

I agree that Hughes is probably past his best in terms of his running ability, and he may not be the most skilful player on the pitch. However we do not have many players with his tenacity and leadership.
What I took from the game was that with Deano back and Hughes and lermer on the pitch we had a bit of fight and leadership which has been greatly lacking this season.
I’m not suggesting that Hughes is a regular starter, but if we could get a few more players to take his lead we would be a better team for it.

Does Hughes not come on to hold a lead or as damage limitation to stop us getting mauled

 

[Eaglecoops]

The back post is a particular bugbear and has been going on for a long time. Whoever is there invariably leaves a lot of space and just watches the ball. What happened to not letting it bounce in the area?
One difference last night was a greater inclination to clear the ball rather than try to play out all the time - although Hendo's weird punch to the touchline was taking it a bit far.

It’s such a mess I’ve been struggling to work out how we are trying to defend, but it looks like a zonal system which basically means you have some players looking at the ball go overhead and take the view, ‘no longer my problem’. It’s not good to watch.

I can’t ever imagine a defence with players like say Delaney, Ninja, Dann or Cahill allowing the centre of defence to be taken over and key parts of the pitch (the back post in particular) remaining uncontested.

It’s part of the pitch where experience counts for more than flashy ability and I’d swap some old heads for a couple of these youngsters all day long.

 

[Plaistow Eagle]

Of course we deserved to win - we scored and they didn't. They played half of their first team whereas we played just 2 of ours, one of whom had just come back from a 2 month injury.

Our B team had their first outing in a real game and obviously found it difficult at the start but they stuck at it, got better and, with the help of sensible subs in the 2nd half, got the job done. The fact that Fulham failed to take their chances is of little concern to us - we had a couple of decent chances in the 2nd half which we failed to take but nobody mentions those - it's only the ones the oppo miss that people want to hit Sage and Palace with.

For example, on Sunday, Newcastle had an XG of just 0.98 whereas ours was 1.69. Does that mean Newcastle didn't deserve to win? Of course not, they took their chances whereas we didn't take ours.

Can I have some of what you’re smoking - it clearly takes you onto a different planet..!!

 

[sprites]

Are you Hughes”s agent..??

He is not a Prem standard midfielder- squad player at best. Most likely Championship standard now.

Yes he’s been a great servant but his time as a starter is done.

Literally the worst take I've seen in weeks haha.

Last night would strongly suggest otherwise. First clean sheet we've kept in donkeys years, looked immeasurably more solid and passionate - at least 50% of that is down to Will and the other 50% to Hendo. He won't, but he should start every game and come off at 65 mins.

 

[Plaistow Eagle]

Literally the worst take I've seen in weeks haha.

Last night would strongly suggest otherwise. First clean sheet we've kept in donkeys years, looked immeasurably more solid and passionate - at least 50% of that is down to Will and the other 50% to Hendo. He won't, but he should start every game and come off at 65 mins.

Really - did you actually watch last nights game.

We should have been 3-0 down at half time, the only time we entered their box in the first half was when we scored.

I’ve said before Hughes been a great servant - but he’s not now prem standard.

To say he was responsible for 50% for last nights result is equally laughable..!!

 

[RubinsCube]

It’s such a mess I’ve been struggling to work out how we are trying to defend, but it looks like a zonal system which basically means you have some players looking at the ball go overhead and take the view, ‘no longer my problem’. It’s not good to watch.

I can’t ever imagine a defence with players like say Delaney, Ninja, Dann or Cahill allowing the centre of defence to be taken over and key parts of the pitch (the back post in particular) remaining uncontested.

It’s part of the pitch where experience counts for more than flashy ability and I’d swap some old heads for a couple of these youngsters all day long.

Bang on and no matter what any of us fans think the players seem to be in the same situation. There is a pattern of our central defenders marking space more than opponents. There is a second pattern of indecision / slow reaction time / lack of recovery pace. These two patterns are combining. The league "goals conceded" column tells you all you need to know.

Like others have said, we got lucky last night and let's not let the clean sheet mask what are still obvious frailities. But a win is a win and there were lots of positives from the game as well. I still think if we can tighten up at the back it could be a very exciting season.

 

[Painter]

Let’s be totally honest - we did not deserve to win last night - performance follows the same downward spiral of recent performances - irrespective of the result.

This will not change until either Sage accepts the 3 at the back formation is wrong, given the options we have available.

Or most likely Sage is sacked and the new manager comes in and does exactly that..!!

It’s as plain on the nose on your face we need to go to a back four, 3 in midfield and then 2 behind the central striker.

That in mind I would go if all fit;

Henderson
Minguieza
Richards
Desasi
Mitchell
Wharton
Timber
Kamada
Sarr
Pino
Mateta

This is solid and provides enough creativity and pace.

COYP

I would be interested in your criteria in deserving to win.

Its a simple game, the team that gets the ball in the back of the opponents net the most, wins. Everything else is superfluous. xg, possession, shots, clearances etc.

 

[OneStevePerrin]

Newcastle showing tonight how good they aren’t and what a good side would have done to them last Sunday. We got lucky last night (thankfully) yet again. There’s no way I can see anything but a large defeat against Spurs this weekend :-(

 

[sprites]

Really - did you actually watch last nights game.

We should have been 3-0 down at half time, the only time we entered their box in the first half was when we scored.

I’ve said before Hughes been a great servant - but he’s not now prem standard.

To say he was responsible for 50% for last nights result is equally laughable..!!

Yes, I watched it.

3-0 is an exaggeration. They had one really good chance that should've been put away, but the others were just standard chances that teams get in a match. I watched the organisation with great detail (as a coach, I've become accustomed to doing so) and our shape was much better than usual, the distances between lines were more compact and the team looked more connected than in recent weeks. Yes, of course you sacrifice a bit of attacking endeavour to achieve that...but football is all about balancing those two objectives right? Hughes was barking orders the whole game, demanding more from his teammates and getting stuck in. Frankly, to suggest his inclusion played no part in our positive result is laughable - back at ya.

 

[cROYdonrogers]

It’s such a mess I’ve been struggling to work out how we are trying to defend, but it looks like a zonal system which basically means you have some players looking at the ball go overhead and take the view, ‘no longer my problem’. It’s not good to watch.

I can’t ever imagine a defence with players like say Delaney, Ninja, Dann or Cahill allowing the centre of defence to be taken over and key parts of the pitch (the back post in particular) remaining uncontested.

It’s part of the pitch where experience counts for more than flashy ability and I’d swap some old heads for a couple of these youngsters all day long.

Its exactly that, which as you say strips defenders of any responsibility. The other teams have worked out that having a player arrive marginally outside the 6 yard will result in a free header. Or they overload that area from free kicks and are unmarked. On paper it looks like Tyrick's at fault quite often. I've never understood what's wrong with man to man marking.

 

[Willo]

Its exactly that, which as you say strips defenders of any responsibility. The other teams have worked out that having a player arrive marginally outside the 6 yard will result in a free header. Or they overload that area from free kicks and are unmarked. On paper it looks like Tyrick's at fault quite often. I've never understood what's wrong with man to man marking.

There are a few flaws which include blocks and screens, mismatches in terms of physicality, players losing the flight of the ball as they are concentrating on who they are marking, players being dragged out of position leaving gaps to exploit etc etc etc.
I will add that zonal marking also has tactical vulnerabilities.
Some teams use a hybrid system, part man-marking, part zonal.

 

[PatrickA]

There are a few flaws which include blocks and screens, mismatches in terms of physicality, players losing the flight of the ball as they are concentrating on who they are marking, players being dragged out of position leaving gaps to exploit etc etc etc.
Some teams use a hybrid system, part man-marking, part zonal.

Whichever system we are using, it's not working.
I anticipate that we will concede a goal from a cross/set piece tomorrow and that's not being negative, it's based on the evidence of my own eyes assimilated over the course of this season.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

There are a few flaws which include blocks and screens, mismatches in terms of physicality, players losing the flight of the ball as they are concentrating on who they are marking, players being dragged out of position leaving gaps to exploit etc etc etc.
I will add that zonal marking also has tactical vulnerabilities.
Some teams use a hybrid system, part man-marking, part zonal.

When he's playing JPM is OK at opposition corners and before him Benteke was effective too but it's not ideal when a striker is the best at defending the ball in the area, particularly when there are three central defenders who should be able to do the job.
Zonal marking is better in theory than in practice

 

[Caterham]

Zonal marking is better in theory than in practice

Especially when attacking teams employ blocking tactics to prevent defenders being able to defend their zone properly

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Especially when attacking teams employ blocking tactics to prevent defenders being able to defend their zone properly

Also known as Artetarizing.

 

[Willo]

I have been privileged to engage in conversation with managers and coaches where discussions evolved into the defending of corners. The decision-making and preparation carried out by clubs is certainly detailed and highly tactical. On one occasion, in a social setting, a manager wished to delve into detail and given there was not a whiteboard nor magnets in sight believed that he could best explain the tactics by using coins. We did not have a sufficient number of coins between us !

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I have been privileged to engage in conversation with managers and coaches where discussions evolved into the defending of corners. The decision-making and preparation carried out by clubs is certainly detailed and highly tactical. On one occasion, in a social setting, a manager wished to delve into detail and given there was not a whiteboard nor magnets in sight believed that he could best explain the tactics by using coins. We did not have a sufficient number of coins between us !

Explains our two-bob defending.