Labour Party politics

CPFCSaturn said:
Because they can't afford to pay their way, obviously.

Firstly, please go and look up what socialism is - I can't take any conversation seriously with that sort of lazy bollocks being thrown around. I'm not suggesting the state should start seizing people's wealth, I'm suggesting if they are in financial hardship, they can go and sell things. It's a feckin capitalist argument.

Your argument is for state benefits, regardless of financial situation - that's considerably more socialist than my position.

Why the f*** should the taxpayer be expected to fund the lifestyle of people who are wealthy - in what fantasy land is that a reasonable policy?

Does this logic apply to anyone but pensioners? Should I be entitled to benefits with thousands of gold bars sat in a vault? Or shares valuing millions? Why should I have to give them up right? The taxpayer can just sort me out.

It's got f*** all to do with equality - please have a think before reeling off the soundbites.
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You cannot refuse the pension.
Don’t you get it. It isn’t means tested.
Irrelevant if you have millions or not.
Means testing it would be sensible.
But cleverer people than you cannot find a way so best accept it how it is !
Also it is a bit socialist to be envious of successful people and want to share their wealth which this will do !
 
cryrst said:
You cannot refuse the pension.
Don’t you get it. It isn’t means tested.
Irrelevant if you have millions or not.
Means testing it would be sensible.
But cleverer people than you cannot find a way so best accept it how it is !
Also it is a bit socialist to be envious of successful people and want to share their wealth which this will do !
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Of course they can find a way - no one has tried because it’s been a political red line in this country for too long, but it’s a matter of when not if.

Would it be ‘envious’ to say I don’t think Marcus Rashford should be entitled to benefits? Same argument.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
But it’s the right who want the state pension???
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So people with a given amount of money should not get health care on the NHS, their children should not get state education, they shouldn't be allowed street lights in their road, or use of drains, they shouldn't be allowed to drive on roads, have access to police support or the fire brigade if their house is on fire?
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Of course they can find a way - no one has tried because it’s been a political red line in this country for too long, but it’s a matter of when not if.

Would it be ‘envious’ to say I don’t think Marcus Rashford should be entitled to benefits? Same argument.
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He won’t want them but old rich people cannot refuse the pension.
Is that a black thing with rashford ?🤣
 
georgenorman said:
So people with a given amount of money should not get health care on the NHS, their children should not get state education, they shouldn't be allowed street lights in their road, or use of drains, they shouldn't be allowed to drive on roads, have access to police support or the fire brigade if their house is on fire?
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No, I’m fine with those things being universal.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Yeah I think it’s reasonable to distinguish between cash benefits and street lighting.

Fair enough if you see it different.
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But your grounds for not paying some people a state pension is that they have a certain amount of money or income, why should other state benefits be different then?
 
georgenorman said:
But your grounds for not paying some people a state pension is that they have a certain amount of money or income, why should other state benefits be different then?
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Because handing out cash is different to services and infrastructure, obviously.

This dynamic already exists: we means test most cash benefits, we don’t means test who can call the fire brigade.

I think it’s pretty sensible.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
So why don't we reward high-earning working age people with some cash benefits as well..?

The socialist policy is the current unconditional handouts to pensioners.

Is that why you're going again with Farage, after Brexit went so well 🤣
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It isn't a handout; it's a return from paying their NI contribution for 35 years. That involves actually working.

Only a complete fuckwit doesn't understand this or still believes the Remainer bullshit.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Because handing out cash is different to services and infrastructure, obviously.

This dynamic already exists: we means test most cash benefits, we don’t means test who can call the fire brigade.

I think it’s pretty sensible.
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The principle is the same.
 
chris123 said:
Maybe easier to argue that high earners already pay a large chunk of their pension back in tax. Although not at 83% on income and 98% on investments like the top earners paid when I first went to work.
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Exactly, some people have paid for their pensions. Cut the pensions for those who have not.
Subsidised Retirement housing would go a long way to solving the problem of poor pensioners.
Make people contribute more for the state pension. If they do contribute more, make it guaranteed.
 
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